On the one hand the Deep State has been likened to the Swamp, which is what I understand to be the professional civil service bureaucracy that ensures government functions and follows the various laws and norms.
On the other hand, the idea of influencing politics and power is decidedly not what government bureaucracy does, but rather would be the something outside groups like the Heritage Foundation and various think tanks, lobby groups, religious, and monied interests across the political spectrum does.
Perhaps it refers to groups like the one that produced the film 2,000 Mules which completely fabricated information about a “rigged election,” but I doubt people who talk about the Deep State are talking about that.
Ah, yes. The Deep State. The bogeyman who haunts every Trump supporter’s nightmares. Trotted out by the Republican Party and Steve Bannon to scare children and independent voters. It’s lived for eons in the dark recesses of countless federal agencies and the basement of Fox News, fed by liberal tears. The greatest trick the Deep State ever pulled was to convince the world it didn’t exist.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag, carrying a cross". My research of this quote just last week led me to this very book written by Sinclair Lewis. The phrase so reminds me of Trump hugging the flag and hawking bibles.
The NYP always struck me as an upscale version of the Enquirer. If you can consider anything they write upscale just because there are no aliens or silly stories. “Haunting” is a great word. A future country that could be described as a combination of “Man in the High Castle “ meets “Handmaids Tale” is not acceptable to most people but they aren’t all taking it seriously . I still don’t think people realize that safeguards aren’t there any longer and we are beyond vulnerable if people don’t vote blue. Shakespeare: “Hell is empty and all the devils are here.”
Thank you for pointing out great reads! George Orwell, Kurt Vonnegut, HG Wells and Ray Bradbury also warned us of how wrong our country could turn if we were not working hard to ensure good leaders were elected. Most of these warnings were written in the 1950’s and 60’s when authors who had lived through the 1920’s, 30’s and 40’s were well aware of the fragility of our democracy. During their youth, they experienced how close we came to losing everything our forefathers had so painfully designed, following independence from Great Britain. WWl, a pandemic, the depression, WWll, and the McCarthy era.
A short story in Ray Bradbury’s anthology that sticks with me is “Sound of Thunder.” He shares great insight in a parallel world of two presidential candidates. “Harrison Bergeron,” by Kurt Vonnegut is another short story of fiction that with 21st century advances in technology, I hope never becomes reality. Written in 1895, HG Wells, “The Time Machine,” is another. Of course Brave New Worlds, “1984,” and the notorious Fahrenheit 451,” are all classics filled with warnings of why voters must be diligent and stay informed.
I often wonder if these authors helped me to think critically as an adult when it came to actively ensuring our leaders respected democracy, our constitution, the rule of law, and the oaths they took once elected and inaugurated. I used those stories for lively student debates in my gifted programs during the 1990’s. Those students are in their 30’s and 40’s now, good upstanding professionals, and parents raising our next generation. These young professionals grew up in red counties and live all over the country. I’m hoping they are still the critical thinkers they were in middle school and HS. and as adults, think for themselves. 💙💙❤️🤍💙🇺🇸. I am optimistic.
If you haven’t read “Player Piano” by Kurt Vonnegut I’d recommend it. It’s an early work of his that has a dystopian setting. It was in high school I read it, so don’t recall it really that well. Do remember that it’s not as analogous to our world as 1984, It Can’t Happen Here or Handmaid’s Tale might be.
Both sides are digging in hard. Ken Burns and the NPR crowd on one side, Dana White and the UFC crowd on the other. Each side viewing the other as an existential threat to democracy. Both sides viewing this as a fight between good and evil. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
I agree that diversity in its many forms is our strength, with the exception of diversity of belief in the basic democratic values of accepting election results, promoting the peaceful transfer of presidential power, and supporting our judicial system (yes, flawed as these institutions are.)
There is nothing in the Constitution that specifically designates a right to use humor, therefor Constitutional Textualists seem to have no ability to discern it. Still, I believe it is guaranteed by a careful reading of the 9th Amendment.
Maybe there is no true “good” in our politics any longer but there is evil. It mocks the disabled, cheats small business people and gullible students. It rapes women and brags about violating their bodies. It casts aspersions on third world countries, and the desperate immigrants who leave them, searching for a better life. It lies and crimes and applauds violent insurrection. It does, indeed, wrap itself in a flag and pretend to have religion. It pits the 99% against each other, while enriching the 1%. It is named Trump. Both sides-ing this election is a mistake we make at our own peril.
I am certainly struggling to understand how anyone with a conscience can vote for the person I consider the embodiment of evil. So, yes, your point is taken and not disputed. I am dug in.
Watched & listened to Ken Burn's address. And yes, it was really great - for him to actually speak out with his opinion might (possibly) even open a few eyes. Notice I did not say it would change minds. The cemented mindsets that exist today dont seem to take in new information or use common sense. Honestly, that applies to all of us - on either side of this political mess.
I havent read "It cant happen here" - but after 2016 - I dont need to be convinced - it can!!
Thank you, Ken. Just a memory: I grew up in an aptment in the Bronx, a Jewish neighborhood of immigrants, many of whom never went beyond JHS> My father and everyone read the very liberal and very thoughtful New York Post and the New York Times. My father would talk about Fathjer Coughlin, Charles Lindberg, and Ford, about the Dearborn Press and Coughlin"s anti-semitic pro Nazi rant on radio....And, just to say, most of my family really did fear and feel "it could happen here." When I hear the lineup of REpublicans spouting the inane rants of Trump--his repeated slogans of witch hunt, rigged elections, about the socialist communist fascist democratic pedophiles destroying democracy, I am horrified at the complicity of Stefanik and the silence of Stec and Stimson and the voters who somehow worship this egomaniac psychopath to be our president, who believe the repeated lies who bow before someone who has told us he would be a dictator. It could happen here...It did...I think of what followed the short time of reconstruction, of the Jim Crow South, of white people spouting their superiority , justifying their cruelty and oppression of blacks with no sense of the immorality and injustice., spouting democracy while doing their best to destroy it and assert their own power--there are Magas everywhere, ignorant, greedy, power hungry, and dangerous...And then there are stupid people listening and following...
On the other hand, I went to a joyous celebration of gay pride in our very neighborhood--where families all came to welcome all...with music and dance and love. It is the anti-dote to the hate that is spouted.
Like I said, both sides digging in deep. Trump supporters are either “ Ignorant, greedy, power hungry and dangerous” or “stupid people listening and following.” We are divided, indeed.
History often repeats itself. We are looking at one of the scariest elections in our country's history. I went to University of Colorado Boulder and spent many hundreds (if not thousands) of hours in Norlin Library during my years there. BUT, I'll never forget the quote etched in stone above the doors to the library: "Who Knows Only His Own Generation Remains Always a Child." This is inscribed over the west entrance of the University Library AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH?
I have read part of It Can't Happen Here in recent years -- and yes, prescient. But I console myself to a small extent with the idea that we WERE here in the 1930s, and even more divided in the 1850s, but we survived. Will we this time? I don't know, but I do know it is in our hands. At least for now, we can still VOTE!
Thanks for the Ken Burns clip. What a brilliant person he is. He didn’t include the quote attributed to Churchill. 😉
“Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.” 🤞
David Frum who’s worth the price of an Atlantic subscription by himself was on with Tim Miller last week. I remain open to the possibility of Donald Trump being president again but share Frum’s optimism that he won’t be. If he is, I still feel better about being Doremus Jessup than Shad Ledue or any of the numerous Congressional bootlickers.
I’ll be honored to share a gulag with any of the NeverTrump Republicans I’ve come to respect. A link for anyone interested.
Which of those countries were led by someone you consider to be less than evil? You accuse Frum of being hyperbolic and then say he loves war more than anything?
I’m more concerned with a current crisis than fighting over disagreements from 20 years ago.
“Hogan issued a statement Thursday, ahead of the announcement of the former president’s conviction, urging Americans “to respect the verdict and the legal process” regardless of the outcome.
“At this dangerously divided moment in our history, all leaders — regardless of party — must not pour fuel on the fire with more toxic partisanship,” Hogan said in his statement. “We must reaffirm what has made this nation great: the rule of law.” Huff Post
That’s where the MAGA Party is and I’m really happy if a good number of Republicans don’t come out and vote for him for Senate. The Dems are going to have a hard enough time retaining it as it is.
I knew Chris LaCivita from the Trump campaign had trashed Hogan. Apparently Lara Trump has too which is even more hilarious since she’s with the RNC which has as a mission getting Republicans elected. Happy to see the circular firing squad.
Trump and Trumpism are the existential threats. If someone wants to cast any or all NeverTrump Republicans aside because they’re not without sin I disagree with it. You end up where the Trump Cult is headed. A rump of a rump on Donald’s rump.
Who is the Deep State??????
Seriously! Define it! Who, what, where and why it is a problem. I don’t know.
No, you used the phrase. You seem to be the expert. So explain it to me like I'm a 2-year-old. I have no idea what you are talking about.
That’s an excellent question.
On the one hand the Deep State has been likened to the Swamp, which is what I understand to be the professional civil service bureaucracy that ensures government functions and follows the various laws and norms.
On the other hand, the idea of influencing politics and power is decidedly not what government bureaucracy does, but rather would be the something outside groups like the Heritage Foundation and various think tanks, lobby groups, religious, and monied interests across the political spectrum does.
Perhaps it refers to groups like the one that produced the film 2,000 Mules which completely fabricated information about a “rigged election,” but I doubt people who talk about the Deep State are talking about that.
Ah, yes. The Deep State. The bogeyman who haunts every Trump supporter’s nightmares. Trotted out by the Republican Party and Steve Bannon to scare children and independent voters. It’s lived for eons in the dark recesses of countless federal agencies and the basement of Fox News, fed by liberal tears. The greatest trick the Deep State ever pulled was to convince the world it didn’t exist.
So you don’t get sarcasm?
Tell us where do find it! You obviously don’t know the answer. Your belief is based on a fairy tale.
Bob, did you watch the movie "The Usual Suspects"? Same line but in the movie, it was the devil that pulled of the greatest trick.
The Deep State is the Republican’s Keyser Söze.
Omg what a powerful and scary scenario!
Yet, shockingly possible.
To all readers…please consider!
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” - Soren Kierkegaard
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag, carrying a cross". My research of this quote just last week led me to this very book written by Sinclair Lewis. The phrase so reminds me of Trump hugging the flag and hawking bibles.
The NYP always struck me as an upscale version of the Enquirer. If you can consider anything they write upscale just because there are no aliens or silly stories. “Haunting” is a great word. A future country that could be described as a combination of “Man in the High Castle “ meets “Handmaids Tale” is not acceptable to most people but they aren’t all taking it seriously . I still don’t think people realize that safeguards aren’t there any longer and we are beyond vulnerable if people don’t vote blue. Shakespeare: “Hell is empty and all the devils are here.”
So true! The checks and balances only work if the people in office hold true to the idea of America being bigger and more important than themselves.
Thank you for pointing out great reads! George Orwell, Kurt Vonnegut, HG Wells and Ray Bradbury also warned us of how wrong our country could turn if we were not working hard to ensure good leaders were elected. Most of these warnings were written in the 1950’s and 60’s when authors who had lived through the 1920’s, 30’s and 40’s were well aware of the fragility of our democracy. During their youth, they experienced how close we came to losing everything our forefathers had so painfully designed, following independence from Great Britain. WWl, a pandemic, the depression, WWll, and the McCarthy era.
A short story in Ray Bradbury’s anthology that sticks with me is “Sound of Thunder.” He shares great insight in a parallel world of two presidential candidates. “Harrison Bergeron,” by Kurt Vonnegut is another short story of fiction that with 21st century advances in technology, I hope never becomes reality. Written in 1895, HG Wells, “The Time Machine,” is another. Of course Brave New Worlds, “1984,” and the notorious Fahrenheit 451,” are all classics filled with warnings of why voters must be diligent and stay informed.
I often wonder if these authors helped me to think critically as an adult when it came to actively ensuring our leaders respected democracy, our constitution, the rule of law, and the oaths they took once elected and inaugurated. I used those stories for lively student debates in my gifted programs during the 1990’s. Those students are in their 30’s and 40’s now, good upstanding professionals, and parents raising our next generation. These young professionals grew up in red counties and live all over the country. I’m hoping they are still the critical thinkers they were in middle school and HS. and as adults, think for themselves. 💙💙❤️🤍💙🇺🇸. I am optimistic.
Best,
Jill
If you haven’t read “Player Piano” by Kurt Vonnegut I’d recommend it. It’s an early work of his that has a dystopian setting. It was in high school I read it, so don’t recall it really that well. Do remember that it’s not as analogous to our world as 1984, It Can’t Happen Here or Handmaid’s Tale might be.
Yes! Thank you for adding this!
Both sides are digging in hard. Ken Burns and the NPR crowd on one side, Dana White and the UFC crowd on the other. Each side viewing the other as an existential threat to democracy. Both sides viewing this as a fight between good and evil. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
I"m tired of living in interesting times….
Diversity is our strength
I agree that diversity in its many forms is our strength, with the exception of diversity of belief in the basic democratic values of accepting election results, promoting the peaceful transfer of presidential power, and supporting our judicial system (yes, flawed as these institutions are.)
I suspect Constitutional Textualists will find no credibility to the idea that our diversity is a strength.
There is nothing in the Constitution that specifically designates a right to use humor, therefor Constitutional Textualists seem to have no ability to discern it. Still, I believe it is guaranteed by a careful reading of the 9th Amendment.
As do most populist authoritarians.
I stand corrected. Diversity is not our strength.
Im not sure if you can describe a nightmare as "interesting."
OK, let’s just call it an interesting nightmare
Maybe there is no true “good” in our politics any longer but there is evil. It mocks the disabled, cheats small business people and gullible students. It rapes women and brags about violating their bodies. It casts aspersions on third world countries, and the desperate immigrants who leave them, searching for a better life. It lies and crimes and applauds violent insurrection. It does, indeed, wrap itself in a flag and pretend to have religion. It pits the 99% against each other, while enriching the 1%. It is named Trump. Both sides-ing this election is a mistake we make at our own peril.
You are proving my point. Both sides are digging im hard..
I am certainly struggling to understand how anyone with a conscience can vote for the person I consider the embodiment of evil. So, yes, your point is taken and not disputed. I am dug in.
👍
Diane Collins
Watched & listened to Ken Burn's address. And yes, it was really great - for him to actually speak out with his opinion might (possibly) even open a few eyes. Notice I did not say it would change minds. The cemented mindsets that exist today dont seem to take in new information or use common sense. Honestly, that applies to all of us - on either side of this political mess.
I havent read "It cant happen here" - but after 2016 - I dont need to be convinced - it can!!
Thank you, Ken. Just a memory: I grew up in an aptment in the Bronx, a Jewish neighborhood of immigrants, many of whom never went beyond JHS> My father and everyone read the very liberal and very thoughtful New York Post and the New York Times. My father would talk about Fathjer Coughlin, Charles Lindberg, and Ford, about the Dearborn Press and Coughlin"s anti-semitic pro Nazi rant on radio....And, just to say, most of my family really did fear and feel "it could happen here." When I hear the lineup of REpublicans spouting the inane rants of Trump--his repeated slogans of witch hunt, rigged elections, about the socialist communist fascist democratic pedophiles destroying democracy, I am horrified at the complicity of Stefanik and the silence of Stec and Stimson and the voters who somehow worship this egomaniac psychopath to be our president, who believe the repeated lies who bow before someone who has told us he would be a dictator. It could happen here...It did...I think of what followed the short time of reconstruction, of the Jim Crow South, of white people spouting their superiority , justifying their cruelty and oppression of blacks with no sense of the immorality and injustice., spouting democracy while doing their best to destroy it and assert their own power--there are Magas everywhere, ignorant, greedy, power hungry, and dangerous...And then there are stupid people listening and following...
On the other hand, I went to a joyous celebration of gay pride in our very neighborhood--where families all came to welcome all...with music and dance and love. It is the anti-dote to the hate that is spouted.
Like I said, both sides digging in deep. Trump supporters are either “ Ignorant, greedy, power hungry and dangerous” or “stupid people listening and following.” We are divided, indeed.
The New York POST is the equivalent of the National Enquirer,
History often repeats itself. We are looking at one of the scariest elections in our country's history. I went to University of Colorado Boulder and spent many hundreds (if not thousands) of hours in Norlin Library during my years there. BUT, I'll never forget the quote etched in stone above the doors to the library: "Who Knows Only His Own Generation Remains Always a Child." This is inscribed over the west entrance of the University Library AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH?
I have read part of It Can't Happen Here in recent years -- and yes, prescient. But I console myself to a small extent with the idea that we WERE here in the 1930s, and even more divided in the 1850s, but we survived. Will we this time? I don't know, but I do know it is in our hands. At least for now, we can still VOTE!
Thanks for the Ken Burns clip. What a brilliant person he is. He didn’t include the quote attributed to Churchill. 😉
“Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.” 🤞
David Frum who’s worth the price of an Atlantic subscription by himself was on with Tim Miller last week. I remain open to the possibility of Donald Trump being president again but share Frum’s optimism that he won’t be. If he is, I still feel better about being Doremus Jessup than Shad Ledue or any of the numerous Congressional bootlickers.
I’ll be honored to share a gulag with any of the NeverTrump Republicans I’ve come to respect. A link for anyone interested.
https://youtu.be/H7cOWsWC2n8?si=tsDovd2QCaTptl_c
David Frum worked in the Bush Jr administration. He coined the term “axis of evil.” He loves war more than anything else.
Which of those countries were led by someone you consider to be less than evil? You accuse Frum of being hyperbolic and then say he loves war more than anything?
I’m more concerned with a current crisis than fighting over disagreements from 20 years ago.
“Hogan issued a statement Thursday, ahead of the announcement of the former president’s conviction, urging Americans “to respect the verdict and the legal process” regardless of the outcome.
“At this dangerously divided moment in our history, all leaders — regardless of party — must not pour fuel on the fire with more toxic partisanship,” Hogan said in his statement. “We must reaffirm what has made this nation great: the rule of law.” Huff Post
That’s where the MAGA Party is and I’m really happy if a good number of Republicans don’t come out and vote for him for Senate. The Dems are going to have a hard enough time retaining it as it is.
I knew Chris LaCivita from the Trump campaign had trashed Hogan. Apparently Lara Trump has too which is even more hilarious since she’s with the RNC which has as a mission getting Republicans elected. Happy to see the circular firing squad.
Trump and Trumpism are the existential threats. If someone wants to cast any or all NeverTrump Republicans aside because they’re not without sin I disagree with it. You end up where the Trump Cult is headed. A rump of a rump on Donald’s rump.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/lara-trump-says-larry-hogan-140124538.html
If you have not already read it, I would direct you to Rachel Maddow's "Prequel."