I think it’s true that more people in the past few years are experiencing an increased level of financial stress. But it’s also true that the vast majority of people continue to report they’re doing at least okay financially.
At least, this is what the Federal Reserve’s Annual Survey of Economic Well-Being of U.S. Households in 2023, released this month, shows:
"The 72 percent of adults doing at least okay financially was similar to the 73 percent in 2022 yet remained well below the recent high of 78 percent in 2021. / 31 percent of adults doing worse off than 12 months ago."
Of course, there are enough people having a hard time financially that one can use that as a basis for claiming a "bad economy." But I don’t think these survey results bear out the view that the economy overall is currently "devastating." And there are enough economic indicators like low unemployment, a substantially-decreasing inflation rate, and increasing wages to counter the "bad economy" view.
Let’s review, for a moment, this particular interchange.
I cited some valid data from the Federal Reserve and elsewhere to support a conclusion I made. In your effort to refute my conclusion, your reply to me consisted of misinformation that had no source and no data to support it.
I think it’s reasonable to conclude your feelings for arguing against my comments were sufficiently strong so that you failed to provide facts to support your claims, going so far as to make false claims.
As I’ve said, feelings are stubborn things, and don’t easily change in the face of facts.
"Why is there such a disconnect.?" Talk radio, Fox news and their ilk. Do you ever listen to it? I do, I can make it about 5 minutes and dear old President Obama said it best, "If I listened to Fox News I wouldn't like me either." Bring back the Fairness Doctrine and with the onset of AI and such, we need to establish a means of determining what is real, and guess what? We already suck at that.
Ken wrote: "What they spend at the store is a weekly fact of life. So when recent surveys revealed half of Americans don't believe the economy is getting better, it raised important questions about why."
I think there are three realms where we human beings are most irrational - and you've covered two of them here. Money and politics. (The third is love, but that's another story....). In these realms, facts seem to be less important to us than feelings.
On second thought, maybe you've covered love here as well with your words on Memorial Day....
I think our emotions sometimes can take precedence over rational thought.
It’s rational to note the increase in the cost of basic goods, and that this increase can be a challenge, especially for those with lower-incomes. It’s irrational to ignore our low unemployment rate, ignore the lowering of inflation, ignore the increasing economic inequality in our country, and ignore the huge number of jobs added to the economy over the past few years, and to assert our economy is in a shambles. Such irrationality is, in part, a result of some people’s "feelings."
And, as I noted, a couple of areas where irrationality often occurs is with money and politics.
The Post Star is no longer a paper that delivers news about the community unfortunately. It has been sadly lacking since both you and Will left. There are stories taken from other sources that can be easily read other ways and many pages of puzzles, cartoons and repeated information. I personally don't feel that it is a local paper that is useful to the community any longer. I also believe that the middle class is tired. Even more so now that there are so many ultra-rich people who easily afford two home (when most haven't paid off or can afford one), cars are averaging 35-40 thousand each, groceries are 30% higher and medical bills can wipe out a lifetime of savings in a year. The rich don't have to worry about these things. The more you make the less you have to give to the government and we all make up for that. Young people feel like hamsters in a wheel just getting by paycheck to paycheck. Fox feeds into all of the frustration.
As I have said many, many, many times, no one should bet their news from the prime time cable shows. Both Fox News and MSNB have become ridiculously slanted. From what I have seen of the Trump trial coverage on Fox, its is much different portrayal than other mainstream outlets like PBS Newshour which is the television standard these days for fair and accurate reporting - in my view. Still does not compare with the print experience.
Here is an example from yesterday. As Fox News reported the jury verdict in Trump trial, you could hear loud cheers when people outside the courthouse heard the verdict. Within a minute or so, the Fox reporter said there were cheers and boos from the crowd. That was not what I heard.
...ignorance is the enemy. People who blame President Biden for whatever: want to blame President Biden: for whatever- whether his administration bears responsibility, or not. / The vote of an uninformed voter is counted precisely the same as the vote of an informed voter: the fatal[?] flaw in democracy? / Another way to say it: "we" vote with our biases and prejudices, not with objective intelligence- and, often, against our -and the country's- best interests...
Binghamton used to have a hockey team called the Broome Dusters. The Arena was usually packed for games - people were rabid fans. I think I went to one game - not a hockey fan. But many were. I dont remember when or why that stopped. But I'm glad it continues in your area & others.
So, we just went through a once-in-a-hundred year pandemic that almost completely shut down our economy for a time, nearly 1.2 million Americans died, and now people are complaining about their “feelings” about the price of gas (which is down from 2 years ago), and the price of groceries (which have been going down in my experience, but are higher than they used to be - they are always higher than they used to be) even while employment is increasing, wages are increasing (higher increases among lower incomes which helps with inflation for many who are affected the most), consumer demand remains high, and corporations are making record profits. But “feelings.”
The economy is like a raft at sea perennially drifting toward the rocks around the mouth of a safe harbor and a president has as much affect as paddling with his hands while half the passengers are cheering for the rocks.
Gas is up 21% from May 2021. It’s down from May 2008, 2011, 2014, 2022, slightly higher than 2023.
Food inflation rate is down from high levels during pandemic to slightly above rate in 2019 with inflation cost of food outside the home nearly 4 times greater than groceries. (In my own shopping, which is not representative of an average consumer, prices are going down as a whole from a year or 2 ago)
Jobs numbers are jobs numbers. You can discount them all you want but the unemployment rate is at 50 year low levels.
Yes, inflation is still a serious problem but it is being brought under control. We just went through a period of inflation that affected nearly everyone similarly, but we are now at a more typical situation where inflation affects some groups far more than others, for instance, if you own your home your housing costs are stable but if you are looking to rent an apartment you are probably seeing huge inflation, depending on your market.
And yes, while people at the very bottom of the income ladder have gotten large gains in income recently they are also most likely to be subjected to large hikes in costs of rent. People on fixed incomes are, as always in a difficult position, which is why liberals support inflation adjusted minimum wage, Social Security, and expansion of various benefit programs such as SNAP.
But the big picture is that the economy is robust as a whole and the economic stimulus programs Biden has put in place has been extremely effective.
Capitalism is based on debt. Money is made up out of thin air. It’s an invented commodity to facilitate trade and create value. Chances are you engage in the exact same system of debt either by buying a house for 2, 3, or even 4 times your yearly earning potential, or buying a car, or even buying bonds or treasury bills that are issued to cover the debt.
Think of yourself as a comic book hero.
So, anyway, Biden’s economic stimulus program has been highly effective and you have avoided admitting the simple truth.
You mean “using central authority to add value to the lives of others.”
You are correct that comparing your home budget to the federal government is a terrible analogy, tho people often do. Just as you say, the federal government can carry debt basically forever while people are doomed to death. It’s a great advantage to being a government.
Mike, capitalism is not based on debt; capitalism is based on the ownership of the means of production. On the ownership of the tools or raw materials that are used to make the items that consumers need or desire. Debt happens when a need or desire exceeds one’s ability to pay for the transaction at the mount the transaction takes place.
Debt is an obligation that requires one party, the debtor, to pay money borrowed or otherwise withheld from another party, the creditor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtmake
My Grandmother once told me there is no such thing as a free lunch. So, unless you know of a system that is completely free of obligation, then someone always pays. If a transaction requires a payment then debt is possible but not required as you state when you write “capitalism is not based on debt”.
What metric are you using to gauge Biden’s economic stimulus program as “highly effective”
There is no form of capitalism that functions without debt in order to facilitate “ownership of the means of production” to any extent worth talking about or to perform capital based trade.
I never said anything about requiring debt in any individual exchange.
The “metric” I’m using to judge Biden’s success is the consensus of the Fed, the various stock markets, consumer spending, and more.
Capitalism is based on production. Who exactly are the “means of production”? Service is also a product. Since slavery is no longer a commodity, those “producing” are OWED compensation if production is to continue. So essentially, yes, capitalism does depend on debt. Infrastructure and manufacturing subsidies are paid for by taxes and the improvements lead to better compensation which fosters consumption and boosts the economy. It starts with “debt”.
Absolutely! We pay huge amounts to have our local paper delivered daily, a paper that is often just a few pages with very little local content. Fortunately, there is a local weekly that is very affordable ($26/year) that does give us local news. But the importance and comfort of an actual physical paper is unquestionable.
Memorial Day is for the deceased veterans. BTW, I didn’t see many poppies this year, even on National Poppy Day. I did watch the annual wonderful Memorial Day Concert on PBS this year. It was extremely moving. Both of todays articles were excellent.
Thanks for still doing the job of the local newspaper, and sharing with us the results of the Harris Poll. Fine article on the economy. Like the label/concept of “vibecession.” Ditto to Mr. Herrmann’s take on the old daily, local newspaper.
Trump has become an absolute stain on this country! Speaking of scum! He is an embarrassment, and makes us look like a third world country. People who seem to have an intense lack of common sense, intelligence, and decency flock to him like he is some kind of God. It's disgusting, but he also seems to be losing many of his supporters. I certainly hope so! I guess time will tell.
I think it’s true that more people in the past few years are experiencing an increased level of financial stress. But it’s also true that the vast majority of people continue to report they’re doing at least okay financially.
At least, this is what the Federal Reserve’s Annual Survey of Economic Well-Being of U.S. Households in 2023, released this month, shows:
"The 72 percent of adults doing at least okay financially was similar to the 73 percent in 2022 yet remained well below the recent high of 78 percent in 2021. / 31 percent of adults doing worse off than 12 months ago."
Of course, there are enough people having a hard time financially that one can use that as a basis for claiming a "bad economy." But I don’t think these survey results bear out the view that the economy overall is currently "devastating." And there are enough economic indicators like low unemployment, a substantially-decreasing inflation rate, and increasing wages to counter the "bad economy" view.
There was no "9% inflation rate in 2023." You can look it up. And wages have outpaced inflation from January 2023 to date.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/
Do you have a valid source for "The increase in wages has not outpaced the increase in inflation"?
Let’s review, for a moment, this particular interchange.
I cited some valid data from the Federal Reserve and elsewhere to support a conclusion I made. In your effort to refute my conclusion, your reply to me consisted of misinformation that had no source and no data to support it.
I think it’s reasonable to conclude your feelings for arguing against my comments were sufficiently strong so that you failed to provide facts to support your claims, going so far as to make false claims.
As I’ve said, feelings are stubborn things, and don’t easily change in the face of facts.
Do you have a valid source for "The increase in wages has not outpaced the increase in inflation"?
Paraphrasing Dickens…”The public is an ass.”
"Why is there such a disconnect.?" Talk radio, Fox news and their ilk. Do you ever listen to it? I do, I can make it about 5 minutes and dear old President Obama said it best, "If I listened to Fox News I wouldn't like me either." Bring back the Fairness Doctrine and with the onset of AI and such, we need to establish a means of determining what is real, and guess what? We already suck at that.
Ken wrote: "What they spend at the store is a weekly fact of life. So when recent surveys revealed half of Americans don't believe the economy is getting better, it raised important questions about why."
I think there are three realms where we human beings are most irrational - and you've covered two of them here. Money and politics. (The third is love, but that's another story....). In these realms, facts seem to be less important to us than feelings.
On second thought, maybe you've covered love here as well with your words on Memorial Day....
I think our emotions sometimes can take precedence over rational thought.
It’s rational to note the increase in the cost of basic goods, and that this increase can be a challenge, especially for those with lower-incomes. It’s irrational to ignore our low unemployment rate, ignore the lowering of inflation, ignore the increasing economic inequality in our country, and ignore the huge number of jobs added to the economy over the past few years, and to assert our economy is in a shambles. Such irrationality is, in part, a result of some people’s "feelings."
And, as I noted, a couple of areas where irrationality often occurs is with money and politics.
Inflation stems from supply chain issues that arose due to the pandemic in 2020.
And I would argue that the third realm that Bob wasn’t ready to discuss is absolutely the most impactful.
The Post Star is no longer a paper that delivers news about the community unfortunately. It has been sadly lacking since both you and Will left. There are stories taken from other sources that can be easily read other ways and many pages of puzzles, cartoons and repeated information. I personally don't feel that it is a local paper that is useful to the community any longer. I also believe that the middle class is tired. Even more so now that there are so many ultra-rich people who easily afford two home (when most haven't paid off or can afford one), cars are averaging 35-40 thousand each, groceries are 30% higher and medical bills can wipe out a lifetime of savings in a year. The rich don't have to worry about these things. The more you make the less you have to give to the government and we all make up for that. Young people feel like hamsters in a wheel just getting by paycheck to paycheck. Fox feeds into all of the frustration.
The percentage of what you pay is not the consistent and the tax write offs are many and substantial. Fox doesn’t just slant, they lie.
Not true.
It seems the only person who tells the truth seems to be, well, YOU! Sarcasm intended.
😆
Yes!
As I have said many, many, many times, no one should bet their news from the prime time cable shows. Both Fox News and MSNB have become ridiculously slanted. From what I have seen of the Trump trial coverage on Fox, its is much different portrayal than other mainstream outlets like PBS Newshour which is the television standard these days for fair and accurate reporting - in my view. Still does not compare with the print experience.
Based on my 40 years experience in the newspaper business, you are absolutely and 100 percent wrong.
And how many newsrooms have you worked in?
Here is an example from yesterday. As Fox News reported the jury verdict in Trump trial, you could hear loud cheers when people outside the courthouse heard the verdict. Within a minute or so, the Fox reporter said there were cheers and boos from the crowd. That was not what I heard.
...ignorance is the enemy. People who blame President Biden for whatever: want to blame President Biden: for whatever- whether his administration bears responsibility, or not. / The vote of an uninformed voter is counted precisely the same as the vote of an informed voter: the fatal[?] flaw in democracy? / Another way to say it: "we" vote with our biases and prejudices, not with objective intelligence- and, often, against our -and the country's- best interests...
Binghamton used to have a hockey team called the Broome Dusters. The Arena was usually packed for games - people were rabid fans. I think I went to one game - not a hockey fan. But many were. I dont remember when or why that stopped. But I'm glad it continues in your area & others.
READ something every day! I leave the paper around and sometimes pick it up days later - still interesting stuff
So, we just went through a once-in-a-hundred year pandemic that almost completely shut down our economy for a time, nearly 1.2 million Americans died, and now people are complaining about their “feelings” about the price of gas (which is down from 2 years ago), and the price of groceries (which have been going down in my experience, but are higher than they used to be - they are always higher than they used to be) even while employment is increasing, wages are increasing (higher increases among lower incomes which helps with inflation for many who are affected the most), consumer demand remains high, and corporations are making record profits. But “feelings.”
The economy is like a raft at sea perennially drifting toward the rocks around the mouth of a safe harbor and a president has as much affect as paddling with his hands while half the passengers are cheering for the rocks.
Gas is up 21% from May 2021. It’s down from May 2008, 2011, 2014, 2022, slightly higher than 2023.
Food inflation rate is down from high levels during pandemic to slightly above rate in 2019 with inflation cost of food outside the home nearly 4 times greater than groceries. (In my own shopping, which is not representative of an average consumer, prices are going down as a whole from a year or 2 ago)
Jobs numbers are jobs numbers. You can discount them all you want but the unemployment rate is at 50 year low levels.
Yes, inflation is still a serious problem but it is being brought under control. We just went through a period of inflation that affected nearly everyone similarly, but we are now at a more typical situation where inflation affects some groups far more than others, for instance, if you own your home your housing costs are stable but if you are looking to rent an apartment you are probably seeing huge inflation, depending on your market.
And yes, while people at the very bottom of the income ladder have gotten large gains in income recently they are also most likely to be subjected to large hikes in costs of rent. People on fixed incomes are, as always in a difficult position, which is why liberals support inflation adjusted minimum wage, Social Security, and expansion of various benefit programs such as SNAP.
But the big picture is that the economy is robust as a whole and the economic stimulus programs Biden has put in place has been extremely effective.
Just admit it.
Capitalism is based on debt. Money is made up out of thin air. It’s an invented commodity to facilitate trade and create value. Chances are you engage in the exact same system of debt either by buying a house for 2, 3, or even 4 times your yearly earning potential, or buying a car, or even buying bonds or treasury bills that are issued to cover the debt.
Think of yourself as a comic book hero.
So, anyway, Biden’s economic stimulus program has been highly effective and you have avoided admitting the simple truth.
You mean “using central authority to add value to the lives of others.”
You are correct that comparing your home budget to the federal government is a terrible analogy, tho people often do. Just as you say, the federal government can carry debt basically forever while people are doomed to death. It’s a great advantage to being a government.
A better educated and healthier citizenry is not “no return”.
When has it not been close?
Mike, capitalism is not based on debt; capitalism is based on the ownership of the means of production. On the ownership of the tools or raw materials that are used to make the items that consumers need or desire. Debt happens when a need or desire exceeds one’s ability to pay for the transaction at the mount the transaction takes place.
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and operates for profit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism.
Debt is an obligation that requires one party, the debtor, to pay money borrowed or otherwise withheld from another party, the creditor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtmake
My Grandmother once told me there is no such thing as a free lunch. So, unless you know of a system that is completely free of obligation, then someone always pays. If a transaction requires a payment then debt is possible but not required as you state when you write “capitalism is not based on debt”.
What metric are you using to gauge Biden’s economic stimulus program as “highly effective”
You say potato, I say potahto.
There is no form of capitalism that functions without debt in order to facilitate “ownership of the means of production” to any extent worth talking about or to perform capital based trade.
I never said anything about requiring debt in any individual exchange.
The “metric” I’m using to judge Biden’s success is the consensus of the Fed, the various stock markets, consumer spending, and more.
Capitalism is based on production. Who exactly are the “means of production”? Service is also a product. Since slavery is no longer a commodity, those “producing” are OWED compensation if production is to continue. So essentially, yes, capitalism does depend on debt. Infrastructure and manufacturing subsidies are paid for by taxes and the improvements lead to better compensation which fosters consumption and boosts the economy. It starts with “debt”.
Feelings and faith are stubborn things. They don’t change easily in the face of facts.
Absolutely! We pay huge amounts to have our local paper delivered daily, a paper that is often just a few pages with very little local content. Fortunately, there is a local weekly that is very affordable ($26/year) that does give us local news. But the importance and comfort of an actual physical paper is unquestionable.
Memorial Day is for the deceased veterans. BTW, I didn’t see many poppies this year, even on National Poppy Day. I did watch the annual wonderful Memorial Day Concert on PBS this year. It was extremely moving. Both of todays articles were excellent.
Thanks for still doing the job of the local newspaper, and sharing with us the results of the Harris Poll. Fine article on the economy. Like the label/concept of “vibecession.” Ditto to Mr. Herrmann’s take on the old daily, local newspaper.
Thanks, also, for your reflections on Memorial Day.
Trump has become an absolute stain on this country! Speaking of scum! He is an embarrassment, and makes us look like a third world country. People who seem to have an intense lack of common sense, intelligence, and decency flock to him like he is some kind of God. It's disgusting, but he also seems to be losing many of his supporters. I certainly hope so! I guess time will tell.