Carl, How would we go about "not normalizing poverty?" What do you think of the wage gap in which "cumulatively, from 1978–2022, top CEO compensation shot up 1,209.2% compared with a 15.3% increase in a typical worker’s compensation." https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2022/ Do you think that trickle down economics has worked? How would you handle the taxes on the uber-wealth who effectively pay so much less by percentage and dollar amount in some cases than we middle class? What do you think of Trump's case, in which he only paid "$750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency then In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750." (New York Times)
He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made. Does electing failed businessmen to the office of president help make America wonderfully exceptional? Carl, we believe in some same values here, but the path to getting to them isn't going to be by crook.
I actually agree in theory with almost every one of your beliefs, except maybe the first one, Carl. We just seem to have real differences as to how to go about it, that I think can be explained by our disagreement over the first one. Individualism means you’re looking out for number one and everyone else needs to look out for themselves, and if they don’t, can’t or won’t, then too bad for them. Communalism, (defined as “social organization on a communal basis” where communal means “of or relating to a community,”) means we are all in this together, and we look out for the least among us, and love our neighbor, and never look down on someone unless we’re offering them a hand up.
I had a conversation with someone who probably thinks a lot like you about things, who gave the example of why should he have to pay $10 for a $5 sandwich so some freeloader can get one for nothing. I said if paying $10 for a $5 sandwich means no one has to go hungry, then I’m happy to pay it.
In practice, we need both. People do need to look out for themselves and take responsibility for their own choices, but the playing field needs to be level and fair so that everyone has the same chances. And for those who are unable or unwilling to look out for themselves, there needs to be a decent level of care and compassion towards them. How is society served by letting people suffer, even if it may be their own fault?
He appointed 3 ultra right wing justices to SCOTUS who then repealed Roe. So half the country lost access to essential healthcare. Shall I go on? Any Muslims out there care to comment?
Tell that to Kate Cox of Texas. Better yet, tell that to the women who don’t have the means to travel across state lines for medical care. And tell Muslims whose family was denied entry to this country during the Muslim ban.
Hello Bridget care to explain what essential healthcare 50 percent of the people lost? You wrote “country”, but seeing it was a Supreme Court decision it must affect the whole country not just half of it. So, 50 precent of the people lost what essential healthcare?
Pregnancy can also be deadly. Using your argument, one could say that kidney stones are a normal body function. Or impotence. And yet medicine interferes in those instances.
The idea that elected officials should dictate an individual’s medical care has “naught” to do with science or common sense.
I think that reasonable people can disagree about issues concerning domestic and foreign policy.
But we cross over into dangerous, unreasonable territory when the majority of Republican voters support a candidate who has openly declared he'll be a "dictator" on Day 1 of his second term, if elected. Someone who repeatedly and knowingly channels the words of Adolf Hitler when describing his political opponents. Someone who encouraged his supporters to illegally disrupt the proceedings of Congress during the certification of the 2020 presidential election, a disruption that entailed extreme violence against law enforcement officers.
This, I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. So please, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Certainly because of Trump’s appointees to the Supreme Court and their decision to repeal Roe v Wade, women in many states have lost the right to bodily autonomy, and yes, essential healthcare from doctors who are afraid of running afoul of the new restrictions. Because of the Supreme and also lower court justices he appointed, voting rights have been curtailed by making it more difficult to vote, and by removing oversight from states with a history of voter suppression. Guess what many of them did when that oversight was gone? New wars? The origins of the two main ones dominating the news cycle now are so old they are almost lost in the mists of time. Trump goosed a good economy that didn’t need goosing, and then when Covid hit he postured, dithered, and divided us instead of leading and bringing the country together. He was a terrible president, and is and always has been a truly awful human being. He has turned the Republican Party into a travesty. I’m not saying Democrats are perfect, but if you believe in democracy, and if you value the Constitution, they are the only choice.
Right now, despite what Fox news would have people believe, the economy is humming on all cylinders. The infrastructure work that Trump promised but never even really tried to do is being delivered by Biden. Trump is still talking about doing away with Obamacare even though people generally like it and even though he promised a newer better cheaper healthcare plan after he was elected, and it was always a few weeks away from being introduced until he forgot to mention it anymore. Do I wish Joe Biden was a little younger and more vigorous? Sure, but he is still intelligent and competent. He speaks in coherent and complete sentences and he makes sense, unlike Trump. Trump is the absolute worst thing that ever happened to this country, by far.
David, First thanks. Second, there was a correction needed to the text, and Will made it; Dan Stec and Matt Simpson were not at that event, but were at a different firefighter event a couple years back that speakers were bashing the Current White-house administration.
I applaud Kelly, that shouldn’t be shown regardless if it was Trump or Biden. As for the firefighters calling her Karen, please try real hard to be a real man and don’t hide behind your uniform
Calling people names has become the norm over the past 7 years. Sadly we have 30% of the country (maybe more) who have turned into mean little second graders.
There’s a thing trending now on social media that is the #TrumpSmells. I think it started with Adam Kinzinger saying Trump smells really bad. And the comedienne Kathy Griffin has seconded it.
What’s absolutely hilarious is the MAGA Faithful complaining that it’s childish. They follow a cult leader whose brand is childish insults and lies.
I often ask if these people following Trump would want their kids and grandkids to grow up like him. But then, there are young kids running around with FJB t-shirts so I realize they’re not imparting anything that approaches morality. Apparently, Elise Stefanik is proud of the actions she’s taking and will be fine with her son learning of what an enabler she’s been.
Right on, Kelly Baker. That’s the action of someone possessed of moral and Christian values. Spread righteousness and justice.
Calling a woman a “Karen” is unbelievably misogynistic. The original was that woman who called the cops on an innocent birdwatcher because he was black. She was wrong to do that, no two ways about it. But now it’s a name to call any woman who speaks up about anything, as a way to minimize and discredit her. We need to come up with a snappy retort, not only to put the name callers on notice, but also to support all the perfectly lovely women out there also named Karen!
Kind of ironic (and I've seen this kind of thing many times). Some one (likely a liberal) points out someone (likely a republican) is being racist.. they hang a tag.. The incident you pointed out the attack wasn't on a woman, but a racist.
Then use it as a weapon against women.
: "Not every woman who is right, not every woman who is smarter than you... is named Karen"
Nice and snappy indeed, but still not apt to change hearts and minds. I may try a technique my uncle Sigurd used to use when people made pronouncements without what he considered to be the proper amount of thought behind them. He asked open questions in a non-confrontational voice, (as though he was just curious, that’s all; like he was from Mars or something and needed to learn about Earth) ) that made you have to explain why you thought what you did, and unless you had good reasons, he could really make you squirm as you were brought face to face with your own stupidity.
If only I can remember to do that instead of letting people get my goat!!!
Like calling Nikki Haley "birdbrain". That gets under my skin more than his other repugnant insults. I told my daughters that this guy's misogyny has no end. That's how men who hate women diminish us; calling us twits, airheads, dumb blondes, birdbrains. Whatever else Nikki Haley maybe, she is far from a birdbrain.
And I agree about "Karen". Like you said, a Karen friend of mine pointed out all the misbehaving women we hear about that they call Karen, none of them are actually named Karen.
Good for Kelly Baker! It takes courage to speak out in a group like that and likely a MAGA group at that event. Can you imagine if the presentation began and ended with Biden? And he's the president! Sadly Trump and his fans have ruined so much of everyday life.
"Kelly said she saw state Senator Dan Stec and Assemblyman Matt Simpson at the event, but I won’t insult anyone’s intelligence by suggesting they will speak out."
I may be wrong, but I suspect that if the screensaver image had been one of Donald Trump behind prison bars, both Stec and Simpson would have had something to say.
In any event, our 2024 presidential election will be a significant inflection point for our country. Will we choose a candidate - Donald Trump - who has repeatedly demonstrated before our very eyes and ears his lack of fitness to hold any elective office? Will we enter 2025 as a failed democracy?
Or will we choose a candidate - Joe Biden - who has demonstrated his sincere commitment to effective governing? Will we enter 2025 as a country that maintained its democratic tradition?
I felt that way when I was camping at Frontier Town a while back and some family had a huge, huge Trump flag- ginormous- with all kinds of Trump regalia. Not an American flag, but a Trump flag. I thought, ugh, how gauche, inflicting your politics on the rest of us at a campground. Nobody else is that rude. Thinking about it now, I wonder if there is any kind of rule about partisan political activity on state property. Good for Kelly for calling it out; it was her party, too, and maybe the hosts should have had more concern for the comfort of their guests rather than pushing their politics.
Correction: As to the presence of Dan Stec and Matt Simpson, this was not the firematics event they were in attendance at when I observed speakers lashing out at the current Whitehouse administration.
I am so proud of Kelly Baker. Her courage in standing up and speaking out is commendable. We need more people to do this. And thank you Will for sharing this with us. How many times are things like this happening and the public has no idea? I am going to be writing my elected official, Matt Simpson, and questioning him about this. What do we think his response will be?
Thank you Renee, One thing I need to mention, there was a correction needed to the text, and Will made it; Dan Stec and Matt Simpson were not at that event, but were at a different firefighter event a couple years back
that speakers were bashing the Current White-house administration.
It would be nice to know if Simpson and Stec support Donald Trump. Do they believe the 2020 election was rigged? Do they believe it is ok to weaponized the federal government as Trump promises to do?
NCPR made a list of questions for pos_tKKK that she would not answer. Hell she won't even sit down for an interview. (if you see a politician avoiding the scrutiny of the media, s/he should also be avoided)
I assume stec and simpson (I assume stec doesn't want to talk because he will be asked about his wife)
Bravo, Bravo, Bravo Kelly Baker! You are absolutely correct. Trump is a criminal and fraudster. Any decent patriotic, law abiding citizen already knows this. He doesn't belong anywhere near the White House and our elected representatives must speak out against him or we will speak out against them!
By way of this post I am asking my Assemblyman Matt Simpson and #SenatorDanStec to publicly respond to this incident.
**************
“I said, ‘Take that crap down! This guy is going to jail. How dare you presume to show this to all these people we’re trying to honor.’”
Kelly said she saw state Senator Dan Stec and Assemblyman Matt Simpson at the event, but I won’t insult anyone’s intelligence by suggesting they will speak out.
Deborah, There was a correction needed to the text, and Will made it; Dan Stec and Matt Simpson were not at that event, but were at a different firefighter event a couple years back
that speakers were bashing the Current White-house administration.
Thank you. I see that. It is good news indeed. I deleted the post from my FB page but will leave my comment here because the sentiment is absolutely correct; our elected officials need to stand up and speak out against these wrongs. We are watching and listening.
just a shout-out for your paean to john mcphee. i’ve been reading mcphee’s extraordinary work since i was in high school, more than a half century ago. (yeah, i’m getting old.) there is simply no better crafter of nonfiction.
oh, and also great thanks to the extremely brave kelly. brava!
Carl, How would we go about "not normalizing poverty?" What do you think of the wage gap in which "cumulatively, from 1978–2022, top CEO compensation shot up 1,209.2% compared with a 15.3% increase in a typical worker’s compensation." https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2022/ Do you think that trickle down economics has worked? How would you handle the taxes on the uber-wealth who effectively pay so much less by percentage and dollar amount in some cases than we middle class? What do you think of Trump's case, in which he only paid "$750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency then In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750." (New York Times)
He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made. Does electing failed businessmen to the office of president help make America wonderfully exceptional? Carl, we believe in some same values here, but the path to getting to them isn't going to be by crook.
I actually agree in theory with almost every one of your beliefs, except maybe the first one, Carl. We just seem to have real differences as to how to go about it, that I think can be explained by our disagreement over the first one. Individualism means you’re looking out for number one and everyone else needs to look out for themselves, and if they don’t, can’t or won’t, then too bad for them. Communalism, (defined as “social organization on a communal basis” where communal means “of or relating to a community,”) means we are all in this together, and we look out for the least among us, and love our neighbor, and never look down on someone unless we’re offering them a hand up.
I had a conversation with someone who probably thinks a lot like you about things, who gave the example of why should he have to pay $10 for a $5 sandwich so some freeloader can get one for nothing. I said if paying $10 for a $5 sandwich means no one has to go hungry, then I’m happy to pay it.
In practice, we need both. People do need to look out for themselves and take responsibility for their own choices, but the playing field needs to be level and fair so that everyone has the same chances. And for those who are unable or unwilling to look out for themselves, there needs to be a decent level of care and compassion towards them. How is society served by letting people suffer, even if it may be their own fault?
He appointed 3 ultra right wing justices to SCOTUS who then repealed Roe. So half the country lost access to essential healthcare. Shall I go on? Any Muslims out there care to comment?
Tell that to Kate Cox of Texas. Better yet, tell that to the women who don’t have the means to travel across state lines for medical care. And tell Muslims whose family was denied entry to this country during the Muslim ban.
Hello Bridget care to explain what essential healthcare 50 percent of the people lost? You wrote “country”, but seeing it was a Supreme Court decision it must affect the whole country not just half of it. So, 50 precent of the people lost what essential healthcare?
Women. It removed the protection that was in place against not being to access abortion in states that let their religious beliefs making policy. And of those 50%, some are children who have been raped. https://time.com/6303701/a-rape-in-mississippi/ Interesting parallel in education in those states. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/least-educated-states Keep your policies off my body and choices.
Pregnancy can also be deadly. Using your argument, one could say that kidney stones are a normal body function. Or impotence. And yet medicine interferes in those instances.
The idea that elected officials should dictate an individual’s medical care has “naught” to do with science or common sense.
I think that reasonable people can disagree about issues concerning domestic and foreign policy.
But we cross over into dangerous, unreasonable territory when the majority of Republican voters support a candidate who has openly declared he'll be a "dictator" on Day 1 of his second term, if elected. Someone who repeatedly and knowingly channels the words of Adolf Hitler when describing his political opponents. Someone who encouraged his supporters to illegally disrupt the proceedings of Congress during the certification of the 2020 presidential election, a disruption that entailed extreme violence against law enforcement officers.
This, I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. So please, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Hi Carl “Make America Great Again”. It’s a slogan, does it hold any meaning for you? if so, care to share?
Certainly because of Trump’s appointees to the Supreme Court and their decision to repeal Roe v Wade, women in many states have lost the right to bodily autonomy, and yes, essential healthcare from doctors who are afraid of running afoul of the new restrictions. Because of the Supreme and also lower court justices he appointed, voting rights have been curtailed by making it more difficult to vote, and by removing oversight from states with a history of voter suppression. Guess what many of them did when that oversight was gone? New wars? The origins of the two main ones dominating the news cycle now are so old they are almost lost in the mists of time. Trump goosed a good economy that didn’t need goosing, and then when Covid hit he postured, dithered, and divided us instead of leading and bringing the country together. He was a terrible president, and is and always has been a truly awful human being. He has turned the Republican Party into a travesty. I’m not saying Democrats are perfect, but if you believe in democracy, and if you value the Constitution, they are the only choice.
Right now, despite what Fox news would have people believe, the economy is humming on all cylinders. The infrastructure work that Trump promised but never even really tried to do is being delivered by Biden. Trump is still talking about doing away with Obamacare even though people generally like it and even though he promised a newer better cheaper healthcare plan after he was elected, and it was always a few weeks away from being introduced until he forgot to mention it anymore. Do I wish Joe Biden was a little younger and more vigorous? Sure, but he is still intelligent and competent. He speaks in coherent and complete sentences and he makes sense, unlike Trump. Trump is the absolute worst thing that ever happened to this country, by far.
David, First thanks. Second, there was a correction needed to the text, and Will made it; Dan Stec and Matt Simpson were not at that event, but were at a different firefighter event a couple years back that speakers were bashing the Current White-house administration.
I applaud Kelly, that shouldn’t be shown regardless if it was Trump or Biden. As for the firefighters calling her Karen, please try real hard to be a real man and don’t hide behind your uniform
Calling people names has become the norm over the past 7 years. Sadly we have 30% of the country (maybe more) who have turned into mean little second graders.
There’s a thing trending now on social media that is the #TrumpSmells. I think it started with Adam Kinzinger saying Trump smells really bad. And the comedienne Kathy Griffin has seconded it.
What’s absolutely hilarious is the MAGA Faithful complaining that it’s childish. They follow a cult leader whose brand is childish insults and lies.
I often ask if these people following Trump would want their kids and grandkids to grow up like him. But then, there are young kids running around with FJB t-shirts so I realize they’re not imparting anything that approaches morality. Apparently, Elise Stefanik is proud of the actions she’s taking and will be fine with her son learning of what an enabler she’s been.
Right on, Kelly Baker. That’s the action of someone possessed of moral and Christian values. Spread righteousness and justice.
And yes, Trump smells is childish. But, we’re not living in a time of high rhetoric. So, there you are.
What’s going to really be hilarious is if Trump himself complains about it being childish.
https://youtu.be/68_v2I9oU4U?si=BebsXuDpMy_2vdXq
Calling a woman a “Karen” is unbelievably misogynistic. The original was that woman who called the cops on an innocent birdwatcher because he was black. She was wrong to do that, no two ways about it. But now it’s a name to call any woman who speaks up about anything, as a way to minimize and discredit her. We need to come up with a snappy retort, not only to put the name callers on notice, but also to support all the perfectly lovely women out there also named Karen!
Kind of ironic (and I've seen this kind of thing many times). Some one (likely a liberal) points out someone (likely a republican) is being racist.. they hang a tag.. The incident you pointed out the attack wasn't on a woman, but a racist.
Then use it as a weapon against women.
: "Not every woman who is right, not every woman who is smarter than you... is named Karen"
Ooooh I like that! “Not every woman who is smarter than you is a Karen!”
Except it’s also likely to escalate the situation, not shut it down. But it would be satisfying to say it!
you asked for a snappy comeback... I will have to think of a shut down
I think adding 'my Native American name' is Tanya-smarter-than you which still wouldn't shut it down'
how about
"You can belittle women all you like, but you can never bring us down to your size"
or
"Now if you have any more ignorance you want to express, please take it to those teachers who worked so hard with you."
Nice and snappy indeed, but still not apt to change hearts and minds. I may try a technique my uncle Sigurd used to use when people made pronouncements without what he considered to be the proper amount of thought behind them. He asked open questions in a non-confrontational voice, (as though he was just curious, that’s all; like he was from Mars or something and needed to learn about Earth) ) that made you have to explain why you thought what you did, and unless you had good reasons, he could really make you squirm as you were brought face to face with your own stupidity.
If only I can remember to do that instead of letting people get my goat!!!
Like calling Nikki Haley "birdbrain". That gets under my skin more than his other repugnant insults. I told my daughters that this guy's misogyny has no end. That's how men who hate women diminish us; calling us twits, airheads, dumb blondes, birdbrains. Whatever else Nikki Haley maybe, she is far from a birdbrain.
And I agree about "Karen". Like you said, a Karen friend of mine pointed out all the misbehaving women we hear about that they call Karen, none of them are actually named Karen.
Good for Kelly Baker! It takes courage to speak out in a group like that and likely a MAGA group at that event. Can you imagine if the presentation began and ended with Biden? And he's the president! Sadly Trump and his fans have ruined so much of everyday life.
"Kelly said she saw state Senator Dan Stec and Assemblyman Matt Simpson at the event, but I won’t insult anyone’s intelligence by suggesting they will speak out."
I may be wrong, but I suspect that if the screensaver image had been one of Donald Trump behind prison bars, both Stec and Simpson would have had something to say.
In any event, our 2024 presidential election will be a significant inflection point for our country. Will we choose a candidate - Donald Trump - who has repeatedly demonstrated before our very eyes and ears his lack of fitness to hold any elective office? Will we enter 2025 as a failed democracy?
Or will we choose a candidate - Joe Biden - who has demonstrated his sincere commitment to effective governing? Will we enter 2025 as a country that maintained its democratic tradition?
It may be the greatest question of the past 50 years.
Dear Will Thank you for sharing Kelly’s story.
Bravo Kelly!!
Diane Collind
I felt that way when I was camping at Frontier Town a while back and some family had a huge, huge Trump flag- ginormous- with all kinds of Trump regalia. Not an American flag, but a Trump flag. I thought, ugh, how gauche, inflicting your politics on the rest of us at a campground. Nobody else is that rude. Thinking about it now, I wonder if there is any kind of rule about partisan political activity on state property. Good for Kelly for calling it out; it was her party, too, and maybe the hosts should have had more concern for the comfort of their guests rather than pushing their politics.
Correction: As to the presence of Dan Stec and Matt Simpson, this was not the firematics event they were in attendance at when I observed speakers lashing out at the current Whitehouse administration.
I am so proud of Kelly Baker. Her courage in standing up and speaking out is commendable. We need more people to do this. And thank you Will for sharing this with us. How many times are things like this happening and the public has no idea? I am going to be writing my elected official, Matt Simpson, and questioning him about this. What do we think his response will be?
Thank you Renee, One thing I need to mention, there was a correction needed to the text, and Will made it; Dan Stec and Matt Simpson were not at that event, but were at a different firefighter event a couple years back
that speakers were bashing the Current White-house administration.
Thank you for the correction Kelly. I still commend you on standing up and pointing out that having Trump on the presentation was wrong.
It would be nice to know if Simpson and Stec support Donald Trump. Do they believe the 2020 election was rigged? Do they believe it is ok to weaponized the federal government as Trump promises to do?
NCPR made a list of questions for pos_tKKK that she would not answer. Hell she won't even sit down for an interview. (if you see a politician avoiding the scrutiny of the media, s/he should also be avoided)
I assume stec and simpson (I assume stec doesn't want to talk because he will be asked about his wife)
https://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/43846/20210527/stefanik-doubles-down-on-opposition-to-insurrection-commission-rebuffs-biden-s-critique
https://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/45241/20220125/here-are-the-questions-we-want-to-ask-rep-stefanik-about-trump-s-baseless-election-claims
Thank you Kelly! I applaud you and if I'd been there would've done the EXACT same thing.
Silence is complicity and I'm so tired of trump madness sneaking into my everyday life and people trying to normalize it.
It's difficult sometimes to push back but know others in our community support you.
Congratulations to your son and THANK YOU for doing the right thing.
My Facebook post:
Bravo, Bravo, Bravo Kelly Baker! You are absolutely correct. Trump is a criminal and fraudster. Any decent patriotic, law abiding citizen already knows this. He doesn't belong anywhere near the White House and our elected representatives must speak out against him or we will speak out against them!
By way of this post I am asking my Assemblyman Matt Simpson and #SenatorDanStec to publicly respond to this incident.
**************
“I said, ‘Take that crap down! This guy is going to jail. How dare you presume to show this to all these people we’re trying to honor.’”
Kelly said she saw state Senator Dan Stec and Assemblyman Matt Simpson at the event, but I won’t insult anyone’s intelligence by suggesting they will speak out.
https://kentingley.substack.com/p/standing-up-pushing-back-against?r=85dg&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post&fbclid=IwAR1ghdOtYwjYCOSzf0GVPFZ3xIyj2PBVV1WSu5b4DNfnWrsZwVS8Mqi5Oc4
Deborah, There was a correction needed to the text, and Will made it; Dan Stec and Matt Simpson were not at that event, but were at a different firefighter event a couple years back
that speakers were bashing the Current White-house administration.
Thank you. I see that. It is good news indeed. I deleted the post from my FB page but will leave my comment here because the sentiment is absolutely correct; our elected officials need to stand up and speak out against these wrongs. We are watching and listening.
YAY for Kelly! Yet another example of women speaking out against Trump (Cassidy Hutchinson, Liz Cheney, Jean Carrol).
I can't say this enough. I read the Jan. 6 Committee Report.
The thing that stood out that women, doing their job (like the election officials in Atlanta) were often doxxed and had death/rape threats.
This happens to both men and women and as Rudy found out - criminal
I think it is time to do more than fine people like hmpy trmpy and rudy and put them in jail
Hooray for Kelly Baker! Let's get the vote out this coming November.
One of the things necessary for the triumph of evil is for good women and men to remain silent, and to say and do nothing.
just a shout-out for your paean to john mcphee. i’ve been reading mcphee’s extraordinary work since i was in high school, more than a half century ago. (yeah, i’m getting old.) there is simply no better crafter of nonfiction.
oh, and also great thanks to the extremely brave kelly. brava!