I'm seeing things differently. I guess I see the Proud Boys in the same way I see the KKK. They are defined in Wikipedia as: The Proud Boys is an exclusively male North American far-right neo-fascist militant organization that promotes and engages in political violence." To me that is a hate group. Others may interpret that differently. Sure, it was a small harmless group this time. What happens when it isn't any longer? I'm all for free speech and everyone is allowed their own perspective but when we get into promoting and engaging in political violence, it all starts with a small group somewhere. I'm not sure what the right thing is to do, but I'm really uncomfortable with just accepting it. But that is just my perspective...
Yes and no. I agree people have the right to gather. Because they are part of a larger hate group, I think I would reconsider. What if this was a trial run to see what response they get? What if they come back again with even more members? I believe hate groups are not to be trusted. They don't get any wiggle room. Not all groups are peaceful. We held peaceful rallied in Glens Falls before, and the aggressive groups were the trump supporters. I think the hate in this country needs to stop. Allowing them to freely bring their hatred to communities only emboldens them, and that's when people get hurt. What starts as a march could end up in violence.
I think they should absolutely be allowed to march, but agree with permits and also public notice so counterprotestors can attend. At the end of the day, those proud boys are a bunch of weenies. In NYC, when they had a protest, it was in front of the Mexican Consulate, in the sedate Upper East Side where the rich people live. In a million years, they wouldn't dare to march in the South Bronx where the people they object to actually live.
As was stated they are a part of a national group that is deemed a hate group by the SPLC.
I do believe in permits so people have a heads up that these idiots will be in their community.
They terrorized a woman who owns a wine store in Ballston Spa because she spoke up and told them to move along...took video of her, her store etc and proceeded to go after her on social media.
I get that everyone has the right to free speech, but not when it's representative of pure hate. And the public should certainly have a chance to meet the hate head on and tell it to drag its ass out of our communities.
As long as the Proud Boys simply walk down the street without a whimper, that's find by me. Permits for public demonstration should allow local authorities to manage traffic and public facilities (and a heads-up).
Then I say, you mean like Kyle Rittenhouse? and you say, no, I mean like the people who burned down a swath of Minneapolis, and so on, none of which has anything to do with the subject we're discussing.
The January 6 assault on the Capitol was likewise not proportionate. The George Floyd protests were riots, January 6, the was a concerted effort to overthrow the government led by people at the highest levels of the outgoing administration. There is no comparison between the two.
Whether to permit a march/demo or not is perhaps less important than the class issues involved here--and so many other issues that tend to simplify what constitutes the Right. There’s no doubt that in this present era, liberalism/modernism/hipness/art/urban values/the Dem. Party are closely tied to the middle class, and that the red states are most associated with alienated workers, the rural world, religion, Trump-ism (or right populism), anti-modernism, anti-intellectualism, guns etc.
And, as reactionary & offensive as the right is, esp. when it comes to race, the environment, and machismo, partly because of the above dynamic, it’s really hard to simply dismiss the right as awash in ignorance and backwardness. Many of their thought leaders, for example, are libertarians and old style conservatives who express themselves nearly as convincingly as the liberal/left--and esp on issues that their opponents have ignored as in 1) mandatory vaccines 2) govt and corporate surveillance 3) Artificial Intelligence 4) digital currency 5) the ravages of Big Pharma, 6) transgender 7) the abolition of prostitution 8) critiques of advanced tech, bio-engineering etc.
So, when it comes to the Proud Boys, it might not be so simple as us vs them. Many of their members are Latino. Most of their chapters refuse the term “white supremacist.” They are mainly working class. And you’d be surprised just how many thoughts about issues are rattling around in their heads (if helter skelter), including, of course, all those telling discrepancies in the official narrative of Jan 6, which they can probably recite in verse.
You've thrown a lot in here. I'm not aware of any mandatory vaccines, not in the way that wearing your seatbelt is mandatory when you drive. I think you'll find few people, whatever their political positions, who don't recognize the wreckage left behind by the greed of pharmaceutical companies like Purdue. Transgender? Meaning what? There is a lot of ignorance and, unfortunately, meanness toward transgender people floating around. I can't see the exploitation of this bias as a positive attribute among "thought leaders" of the right. I am not aware that many Proud Boys are Latinos, and I'm skeptical. There is one -- Tarrio -- I've heard about. "Telling discrepancies?" That sounds a lot like the prelude to a conspiracy theory. Any large, chaotic event will be seen and described in different ways from different viewpoints. A huge video record exists of the Jan. 6 attack, and hundreds of perpetrators have been charged, tried and convicted. Few if any such events have a more detailed and damning evidentiary record.
On Sunday Aug 13 there was a “Rally Against Proud Boys in Our Community” held in downtown Saratoga Springs. The event was organized by white Democrats, and a number of political people spoke at the event. The event organizers made it a point to make sure the rally was peaceful and there was no disruptive behavior. The rules for the event can be found on the organizer’s Facebook site. The attempt the event was well attended, unexciting, and came off without a hitch. Note that no one from BLM or the Republican Party spoke at the event.
Saratoga BLM was highly critical of the event, and posted their response to the event on the BLM FB page. BLM had three major complaints. One, the rally was organized by white people. Two, some of the organizers and leaders of the event were deemed to be racist and part of the problem. Three, BLM felt the rules for the event were critical of, and insulting to, BLM. I personally don’t know what to make of this, other than I know that, at least some of the leaders of the event had good intentions.
I'm seeing things differently. I guess I see the Proud Boys in the same way I see the KKK. They are defined in Wikipedia as: The Proud Boys is an exclusively male North American far-right neo-fascist militant organization that promotes and engages in political violence." To me that is a hate group. Others may interpret that differently. Sure, it was a small harmless group this time. What happens when it isn't any longer? I'm all for free speech and everyone is allowed their own perspective but when we get into promoting and engaging in political violence, it all starts with a small group somewhere. I'm not sure what the right thing is to do, but I'm really uncomfortable with just accepting it. But that is just my perspective...
Agree 1,000 %!
Thank you
Yes and no. I agree people have the right to gather. Because they are part of a larger hate group, I think I would reconsider. What if this was a trial run to see what response they get? What if they come back again with even more members? I believe hate groups are not to be trusted. They don't get any wiggle room. Not all groups are peaceful. We held peaceful rallied in Glens Falls before, and the aggressive groups were the trump supporters. I think the hate in this country needs to stop. Allowing them to freely bring their hatred to communities only emboldens them, and that's when people get hurt. What starts as a march could end up in violence.
Agree completely.
I think they should absolutely be allowed to march, but agree with permits and also public notice so counterprotestors can attend. At the end of the day, those proud boys are a bunch of weenies. In NYC, when they had a protest, it was in front of the Mexican Consulate, in the sedate Upper East Side where the rich people live. In a million years, they wouldn't dare to march in the South Bronx where the people they object to actually live.
As despicable as their beliefs may be, if they haven’t broken any laws then they shouldn’t be turned into martyrs by overzealous prosecution.
Grown men hiding behind masks. Such bravery!
As was stated they are a part of a national group that is deemed a hate group by the SPLC.
I do believe in permits so people have a heads up that these idiots will be in their community.
They terrorized a woman who owns a wine store in Ballston Spa because she spoke up and told them to move along...took video of her, her store etc and proceeded to go after her on social media.
I get that everyone has the right to free speech, but not when it's representative of pure hate. And the public should certainly have a chance to meet the hate head on and tell it to drag its ass out of our communities.
Spotted a good flag on Insta: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvbelm7uKGf/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
As long as the Proud Boys simply walk down the street without a whimper, that's find by me. Permits for public demonstration should allow local authorities to manage traffic and public facilities (and a heads-up).
The response to Jan. 6 was certainly not proportionate to the response to the George Floyd riots
Then I say, you mean like Kyle Rittenhouse? and you say, no, I mean like the people who burned down a swath of Minneapolis, and so on, none of which has anything to do with the subject we're discussing.
The January 6 assault on the Capitol was likewise not proportionate. The George Floyd protests were riots, January 6, the was a concerted effort to overthrow the government led by people at the highest levels of the outgoing administration. There is no comparison between the two.
Whether to permit a march/demo or not is perhaps less important than the class issues involved here--and so many other issues that tend to simplify what constitutes the Right. There’s no doubt that in this present era, liberalism/modernism/hipness/art/urban values/the Dem. Party are closely tied to the middle class, and that the red states are most associated with alienated workers, the rural world, religion, Trump-ism (or right populism), anti-modernism, anti-intellectualism, guns etc.
And, as reactionary & offensive as the right is, esp. when it comes to race, the environment, and machismo, partly because of the above dynamic, it’s really hard to simply dismiss the right as awash in ignorance and backwardness. Many of their thought leaders, for example, are libertarians and old style conservatives who express themselves nearly as convincingly as the liberal/left--and esp on issues that their opponents have ignored as in 1) mandatory vaccines 2) govt and corporate surveillance 3) Artificial Intelligence 4) digital currency 5) the ravages of Big Pharma, 6) transgender 7) the abolition of prostitution 8) critiques of advanced tech, bio-engineering etc.
So, when it comes to the Proud Boys, it might not be so simple as us vs them. Many of their members are Latino. Most of their chapters refuse the term “white supremacist.” They are mainly working class. And you’d be surprised just how many thoughts about issues are rattling around in their heads (if helter skelter), including, of course, all those telling discrepancies in the official narrative of Jan 6, which they can probably recite in verse.
You've thrown a lot in here. I'm not aware of any mandatory vaccines, not in the way that wearing your seatbelt is mandatory when you drive. I think you'll find few people, whatever their political positions, who don't recognize the wreckage left behind by the greed of pharmaceutical companies like Purdue. Transgender? Meaning what? There is a lot of ignorance and, unfortunately, meanness toward transgender people floating around. I can't see the exploitation of this bias as a positive attribute among "thought leaders" of the right. I am not aware that many Proud Boys are Latinos, and I'm skeptical. There is one -- Tarrio -- I've heard about. "Telling discrepancies?" That sounds a lot like the prelude to a conspiracy theory. Any large, chaotic event will be seen and described in different ways from different viewpoints. A huge video record exists of the Jan. 6 attack, and hundreds of perpetrators have been charged, tried and convicted. Few if any such events have a more detailed and damning evidentiary record.
Good article. I hadn’t heard of their march.
On Sunday Aug 13 there was a “Rally Against Proud Boys in Our Community” held in downtown Saratoga Springs. The event was organized by white Democrats, and a number of political people spoke at the event. The event organizers made it a point to make sure the rally was peaceful and there was no disruptive behavior. The rules for the event can be found on the organizer’s Facebook site. The attempt the event was well attended, unexciting, and came off without a hitch. Note that no one from BLM or the Republican Party spoke at the event.
Saratoga BLM was highly critical of the event, and posted their response to the event on the BLM FB page. BLM had three major complaints. One, the rally was organized by white people. Two, some of the organizers and leaders of the event were deemed to be racist and part of the problem. Three, BLM felt the rules for the event were critical of, and insulting to, BLM. I personally don’t know what to make of this, other than I know that, at least some of the leaders of the event had good intentions.