Stand Your Ground laws are products of bigotry, racism, and fear. They promote racism, bigotry , and fear among those who are susceptible.
Discussion about cell service is specious in regard to the Gillis shooting. She simply should never have been shot. But if there is to be a discussion about cell service it should center on the failure of Dan Stec to deliver on his repeated promises. He’s good at finding excuses, pointing fingers, casting blame on others. I’ve never heard him hold cell service providers accountable. He parrots their excuses, “we have to make a profit.” Fact: cell service providers sell a service they lead you to believe is available virtually everywhere you go. That includes rural areas. If you are paying for service in Manhattan a portion of your bill should be funding buildout of networks in places you may visit even if rarely - like Washington County, NY.
And Matt Simpson should be ashamed of himself for cleaving to the Stefanik/Stec brand of mean-spirited politics.
I understood it was a question. My response was, that it is so clear that the concepts are radically different no answer from me was necessary. It’s like you’re asking what’s the difference between a circle and a square. But if you must know, the castle doctrine is and should be very limited as a means of defense for killing an “intruder” in your home. Remember the local teacher who was killed in Buffalo area because he mistakenly entered the wrong home? Or what about Breonna Taylor’s boyfriend, charged with shooting at police when they broke into the home on a no-knock warrant? Self defense should be self defense not murder or manslaughter in disguise. The public square is nobody’s castle.
While you're at the PBS News Hour, you might also want to check out PBS Kids Saturday morning 5/13. It's a program for 2-6 year olds. This episode was about the young tennis star Arthur Ash. I was stunned and sickened to hear their white-hating message. The words spoken were WHITE people did not let black Ash play tennis. Even though true, should white 2-6 y o children be shamed today? It's insanity. Yes, PBS is VERY liberally biased. Like every other indoctrinater, they are going after the kids. Think drag.
When George Floyd was killed 800 speakers, overwhelmingly young residents and students were allowed to dominate the council for three nights. At the time Progressives dominated the council. I was sickened then too, to hear young people say I am ashamed to be white. Then they advertised the group that they had received the 'white people are bad' message. It just happened to be the one I had been involved with decades ago. Many sources have pushed me away from libs.
I have not found PBS News Hour to have a bias and I’ve been watching for years. They are one of the three news programs that features political leaders from both sides of the aisle. I think saying the entire network is bias because of an objection to one segment on one television show might be a bit too far.
I have watched PBS News Hour for decades too. Yes, I have heard politicians from both sides. There are an overwhelming number of programs that are liberally biased - World, Amanpour Company. Reframed..., many, many others. Maybe you are only watching the News Hour.
Indoctrination is something the Republicans do. They repeat the same 20 sentences over and over and over. They are always the victims no matter what they do. Including shooting a young girl to death for turning in the wrong drive way. It has nothing to do with PBS. It is the worship of a man who during a televised town hall mocks a woman he was found guilty of sexually assaulting and defaming and get applause. It is the worship of a woman who has “served” her district for 8 years who named a post office and wants to make guns readily available to anyone who wants one and profits from their sale. Just to point out the obvious, this murderer is the exact kind of person they talk about all the time. The responsible gun owner who just needs his firearm to protect himself. Ask Ms. Gillis mother how she enjoyed her Mother’s Day because someone was protecting their driveway. You are all indoctrinated by your love of guns and worshipping of people who promote them.
Perhaps instead of being outraged with the messenger, we actually for once, listen to the message. I am white and I do indeed feel we could be doing far, far better. I’m not ashamed to BE white. But I am absolutely ashamed of the continued actions of some folks I’m tied to by my skin color. No one is telling kids to be ashamed of themselves. Just to do better than those around them. Unfortunately, this is a message that needs to be taught. Because, like it or not, there are folks out there teaching their kids to hate those who aren’t like them. Think drag.
Maybe you ought to LISTEN to the messenger. Did I say I was outraged? You project. YOU ARE WRONG, there absolutely are people telling white kids to be ashamed of their whiteness. I've been in those workshops. Parents say it is happening in schools.
Yes, think drag. No one is saying hate them. They are saying it is 'adult' entertainment it doesn't belong in children's spaces.
One of my favorite black people is Louis Henry Gates, Jr of PBS fame, he says guilt is not heritable. That sounds right to me.
As with most things, there is a middle ground. I certainly understand being able to protect yourself should someone break into your home. It doesn't happen a lot around here but it does happen. But God forbid you are selling Girl Scout cookies or asking or asking for directions, and someone "feels threatened?" Depending upon the mental health status of the person feeling threatened, that could vary drastically. I wish common sense had meaning these days but it seems to have left the room.
We were already at middle ground years ago. Pocket sized machines made for killing largely required a permit to buy or to carry in public places, but many others - the longer kinds that are generally harder to hide and used mostly for killing varmints on farms or hunting game for those who acquire the proper permit to “take” animals held in public trust. The idea that expanding access to handguns, to concealed carry permits, to permitless carry laws, to laws that don’t require someone to stop for even one second to consider if they are in actual danger, to laws that allow the most fearful among us to start shooting because they have irrational fear … none of that is middle ground.
A law to find middle ground would require people buying pocket sized machines meant for killing to 1) take a safety course, 2) hold liability insurance, 3) require the immediate arrest and investigation of anyone who fired a projectile that hit or killed another person or struck property of any kind not owned by the person firing the weapon. That would be more like middle ground. That would provide some degree of accountability.
While Barbara is correct that there should be a middle ground for extremely rare self-defense claims, the danger that Ken brings up about “feeling afraid“ is the slippery slope. I am disappointed that two seemingly moderate and sensible politicians would back this proposed law.
It is disturbing to read that NY politicians would even consider "Stand Your Ground" laws. As many of your readers have pointed out, where does one draw the line for feeling fear. Fareed Zakaria had an excellent commentary on gun violence with the title "America might as well be on a different planet." It is well worth watching because he loads it up with facts to demonstrate the out of control homicides in this country: in 2021 in the US (20, 958); in the UK (31). He does account for the differential in populations. He also talks about the tragedy of gun suicides as well. We could do better in this country.
Thanks, Ken, for your item on school elections. It reminded me to check for my school district election (Shen) and while there are two school board seats opening up I cannot find who is running to fill those seats.
Post-Star readers have taken the school election coverage for granted. I’ve never seen any newspaper cover the budget process as well as them. Reporter/Editor Mike Goot deserves a lot of credit for the continued great coverage.
The answer, from a League of Women Voters rep, was to go to vote411.org, enter your street address, select the race you're interested in... and then the only two persons running for those two seats showed up. The two incumbents. They had provided answers to well-crafted questions, which reassures me that the candidates are smart, interested in good educational outcomes, and do not follow any strange agendas.
Another great article Ken, just great! I think it’s Texas that has the least restrictive gun laws in the nation and I think I read that that’s the state with the most mass shootings.
I’d suggest that Stec and Simpson know that this Shoot First, Answer Questions Later bill has no chance of passing in NY. Thank God and Democratic control of government. They’re just playing for Elise’s MAGA Republican base in case she moves on and that seat becomes available. The sad part is they also wouldn’t care if the legislation passed despite pretty clear evidence that these laws lead to more deaths.
The idea that encouraging people to not back down and try to resolve a situation, but rather escalate it, is not going to lead to more deaths is insane.
It’s also despicable that they brought Kaylin Gillis into their argument in favor of this. That situation would obviously not be relevant so why mention it?
Just a reminder that this weekend was the anniversary of the Tops shooting in Buffalo by a shooter pushing the same Replacement Theory that Elise Stefanik and Tucker Carlson have. Are Stec and Simpson ready to sign onto pure xenophobia and racism, too? In for a penny, in for a pound.
I sincerely hope this is not forgotten when he's up for reelection, and whoever runs against him uses it to slam him. Having said that, hopefully the MAGA's in Warren county are enough in the minority to defeat both candidates.
Jean Lapper might give him a run for his money. She's determined to NOT go away, and she might have a chance. From our lips to God's ears, right??? I'm sick of the republican
Ken your statement (“After Florida passed Stand Your Ground legislation in 2012, George Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, killed a black teenager who was walking to his father’s house.”) Leads to a false conclusion.
Roughly 7 years elapsed between the two events. In 2005 Florida was the first state to introduce a stand-your-ground law. George Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon Martin February 26, 2012
Stand Your Ground laws are products of bigotry, racism, and fear. They promote racism, bigotry , and fear among those who are susceptible.
Discussion about cell service is specious in regard to the Gillis shooting. She simply should never have been shot. But if there is to be a discussion about cell service it should center on the failure of Dan Stec to deliver on his repeated promises. He’s good at finding excuses, pointing fingers, casting blame on others. I’ve never heard him hold cell service providers accountable. He parrots their excuses, “we have to make a profit.” Fact: cell service providers sell a service they lead you to believe is available virtually everywhere you go. That includes rural areas. If you are paying for service in Manhattan a portion of your bill should be funding buildout of networks in places you may visit even if rarely - like Washington County, NY.
And Matt Simpson should be ashamed of himself for cleaving to the Stefanik/Stec brand of mean-spirited politics.
Mike How is a Stand Your Ground law a product of bigotry, racism?
What's the difference between Stand your ground laws and the common law "castle doctrine."
If you don’t think there’s a difference between Stand Your Ground and “castle doctrine” then why would there need to be 2 different laws?
My bad I forgot the question mark.
What's the difference between Stand your ground laws and the common law "castle doctrine."?
.
I understood it was a question. My response was, that it is so clear that the concepts are radically different no answer from me was necessary. It’s like you’re asking what’s the difference between a circle and a square. But if you must know, the castle doctrine is and should be very limited as a means of defense for killing an “intruder” in your home. Remember the local teacher who was killed in Buffalo area because he mistakenly entered the wrong home? Or what about Breonna Taylor’s boyfriend, charged with shooting at police when they broke into the home on a no-knock warrant? Self defense should be self defense not murder or manslaughter in disguise. The public square is nobody’s castle.
While you're at the PBS News Hour, you might also want to check out PBS Kids Saturday morning 5/13. It's a program for 2-6 year olds. This episode was about the young tennis star Arthur Ash. I was stunned and sickened to hear their white-hating message. The words spoken were WHITE people did not let black Ash play tennis. Even though true, should white 2-6 y o children be shamed today? It's insanity. Yes, PBS is VERY liberally biased. Like every other indoctrinater, they are going after the kids. Think drag.
When George Floyd was killed 800 speakers, overwhelmingly young residents and students were allowed to dominate the council for three nights. At the time Progressives dominated the council. I was sickened then too, to hear young people say I am ashamed to be white. Then they advertised the group that they had received the 'white people are bad' message. It just happened to be the one I had been involved with decades ago. Many sources have pushed me away from libs.
I have not found PBS News Hour to have a bias and I’ve been watching for years. They are one of the three news programs that features political leaders from both sides of the aisle. I think saying the entire network is bias because of an objection to one segment on one television show might be a bit too far.
I have watched PBS News Hour for decades too. Yes, I have heard politicians from both sides. There are an overwhelming number of programs that are liberally biased - World, Amanpour Company. Reframed..., many, many others. Maybe you are only watching the News Hour.
PBS IS indoctrinating children.
Indoctrination is something the Republicans do. They repeat the same 20 sentences over and over and over. They are always the victims no matter what they do. Including shooting a young girl to death for turning in the wrong drive way. It has nothing to do with PBS. It is the worship of a man who during a televised town hall mocks a woman he was found guilty of sexually assaulting and defaming and get applause. It is the worship of a woman who has “served” her district for 8 years who named a post office and wants to make guns readily available to anyone who wants one and profits from their sale. Just to point out the obvious, this murderer is the exact kind of person they talk about all the time. The responsible gun owner who just needs his firearm to protect himself. Ask Ms. Gillis mother how she enjoyed her Mother’s Day because someone was protecting their driveway. You are all indoctrinated by your love of guns and worshipping of people who promote them.
"You are all indoctrinated by your love of guns and worshipping of people who promote them."
"Indoctrination is something the Republicans do." I speak from my 40+ years as a liberal Dem. Unlike you, not from hateful blaming.
I made no statement about whomever you are ranting about. You turned my post into something it is not. I was addressing the comment that included PBS.
Cool your jets.
You should have started a new post.
Perhaps instead of being outraged with the messenger, we actually for once, listen to the message. I am white and I do indeed feel we could be doing far, far better. I’m not ashamed to BE white. But I am absolutely ashamed of the continued actions of some folks I’m tied to by my skin color. No one is telling kids to be ashamed of themselves. Just to do better than those around them. Unfortunately, this is a message that needs to be taught. Because, like it or not, there are folks out there teaching their kids to hate those who aren’t like them. Think drag.
Maybe you ought to LISTEN to the messenger. Did I say I was outraged? You project. YOU ARE WRONG, there absolutely are people telling white kids to be ashamed of their whiteness. I've been in those workshops. Parents say it is happening in schools.
Yes, think drag. No one is saying hate them. They are saying it is 'adult' entertainment it doesn't belong in children's spaces.
One of my favorite black people is Louis Henry Gates, Jr of PBS fame, he says guilt is not heritable. That sounds right to me.
Hello Sophia, you claim that PBS is engaged in liberally biased Indoctrination of kids, why would they do this?
Hi Carl. You claim PBS is attempting to change the USA into another European socialist nation. I have a two-part question.
First part. What makes a nation a socialist nation. What European countries have a political and economic form of Socialist Government?
Second part. You claim PBS is working to make the USA a socialist nation, what methods are they using to archive this goal?
Damn good question.
As with most things, there is a middle ground. I certainly understand being able to protect yourself should someone break into your home. It doesn't happen a lot around here but it does happen. But God forbid you are selling Girl Scout cookies or asking or asking for directions, and someone "feels threatened?" Depending upon the mental health status of the person feeling threatened, that could vary drastically. I wish common sense had meaning these days but it seems to have left the room.
We were already at middle ground years ago. Pocket sized machines made for killing largely required a permit to buy or to carry in public places, but many others - the longer kinds that are generally harder to hide and used mostly for killing varmints on farms or hunting game for those who acquire the proper permit to “take” animals held in public trust. The idea that expanding access to handguns, to concealed carry permits, to permitless carry laws, to laws that don’t require someone to stop for even one second to consider if they are in actual danger, to laws that allow the most fearful among us to start shooting because they have irrational fear … none of that is middle ground.
A law to find middle ground would require people buying pocket sized machines meant for killing to 1) take a safety course, 2) hold liability insurance, 3) require the immediate arrest and investigation of anyone who fired a projectile that hit or killed another person or struck property of any kind not owned by the person firing the weapon. That would be more like middle ground. That would provide some degree of accountability.
1, 2, 3
thanks most everyone
BUT
FEARepublican politicians believe in
I have asked this question 1,000 times on #pos_tefanik's social media
--> what is her gun policy
there is never an answer because they don't know
they don't know her voting record has been to
• allow guns in the hands of the mentally ill
• not require training
• not require background checks
• giving guns to distraught boyfriends
===
it is time to make politicians and gun companies to be accountable for the deaths they have caused
While Barbara is correct that there should be a middle ground for extremely rare self-defense claims, the danger that Ken brings up about “feeling afraid“ is the slippery slope. I am disappointed that two seemingly moderate and sensible politicians would back this proposed law.
I believe Dan Stec recent history, he has not been moderate.
Perhaps I should have said previously moderate
Or, perhaps, previously moderate if you live in a town that considered Jerry Solomon a moderate and North Road in Queensbury a highly dangerous place.
It is disturbing to read that NY politicians would even consider "Stand Your Ground" laws. As many of your readers have pointed out, where does one draw the line for feeling fear. Fareed Zakaria had an excellent commentary on gun violence with the title "America might as well be on a different planet." It is well worth watching because he loads it up with facts to demonstrate the out of control homicides in this country: in 2021 in the US (20, 958); in the UK (31). He does account for the differential in populations. He also talks about the tragedy of gun suicides as well. We could do better in this country.
it's not 'NY politicians'
it is NY FEARepublians
they have no policy, they only have fear to run on
let's do the math
When you are carrying a gun, it becomes part of any conversation
if you have politicians (#pos_tefanik) and a gun lobby (#posManda) preaching fear
and if you say you must stand your ground because of this
more innocent people will die
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/18/stand-your-ground-laws-us-deaths-racist-violence
with the bonus of gop racism
Thanks, Ken, for your item on school elections. It reminded me to check for my school district election (Shen) and while there are two school board seats opening up I cannot find who is running to fill those seats.
I've posted this question on Facebook.
Post-Star readers have taken the school election coverage for granted. I’ve never seen any newspaper cover the budget process as well as them. Reporter/Editor Mike Goot deserves a lot of credit for the continued great coverage.
The answer, from a League of Women Voters rep, was to go to vote411.org, enter your street address, select the race you're interested in... and then the only two persons running for those two seats showed up. The two incumbents. They had provided answers to well-crafted questions, which reassures me that the candidates are smart, interested in good educational outcomes, and do not follow any strange agendas.
In this context, 'Stand your Ground' is more like "Blame the Victim". Shame on Matt & Dan.
Another great article Ken, just great! I think it’s Texas that has the least restrictive gun laws in the nation and I think I read that that’s the state with the most mass shootings.
I’d suggest that Stec and Simpson know that this Shoot First, Answer Questions Later bill has no chance of passing in NY. Thank God and Democratic control of government. They’re just playing for Elise’s MAGA Republican base in case she moves on and that seat becomes available. The sad part is they also wouldn’t care if the legislation passed despite pretty clear evidence that these laws lead to more deaths.
The idea that encouraging people to not back down and try to resolve a situation, but rather escalate it, is not going to lead to more deaths is insane.
It’s also despicable that they brought Kaylin Gillis into their argument in favor of this. That situation would obviously not be relevant so why mention it?
https://abcnews.go.com/US/stand-ground-laws-connected-higher-homicide-rates/story?id=83050286
Just a reminder that this weekend was the anniversary of the Tops shooting in Buffalo by a shooter pushing the same Replacement Theory that Elise Stefanik and Tucker Carlson have. Are Stec and Simpson ready to sign onto pure xenophobia and racism, too? In for a penny, in for a pound.
I sincerely hope this is not forgotten when he's up for reelection, and whoever runs against him uses it to slam him. Having said that, hopefully the MAGA's in Warren county are enough in the minority to defeat both candidates.
Sadly,he often runs unopposed.
We needs some young whippersnapper to rise to the occasion and give the voters a true choice!
Jean Lapper might give him a run for his money. She's determined to NOT go away, and she might have a chance. From our lips to God's ears, right??? I'm sick of the republican
"machine" here...Thanks for your posts...
Ken your statement (“After Florida passed Stand Your Ground legislation in 2012, George Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, killed a black teenager who was walking to his father’s house.”) Leads to a false conclusion.
Roughly 7 years elapsed between the two events. In 2005 Florida was the first state to introduce a stand-your-ground law. George Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon Martin February 26, 2012