Will, Stefanik is in too deep!!! She won't abandon her ignorant rants until she's voted out of office, or is picked as trumps running mate and loses the election...looks like we're stuck with her for the duration...sooo sad.
Thank you for publicly standing up to bullies like Elise Stefanik. She and her cohort of anti-democracy authoritarians are leading their personality cult followers down a dark and dangerous path of trashing our country's constitution. Let's all speak up against this travesty, and be sure to vote in 2024 — it's our only chance to maintain our democratic values.
Karma can’t come too soon for demagogues like Elise Stefanik and propagandists like Chris Talgo. What a sad existence these people must have. Liz Cheney may no longer have a seat in Congress, but she has her dignity and doesn’t have to serve Donald Trump.
Imagine the shame one must feel to graduate Harvard and go on to be a congressional lapdog for the most ignorant, least patriotic man ever to hold the presidency.
“Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey, who had been a Republican for even less time than Donald Trump, said my vote had made it hard for him to explain to people in his swing district why he hadn’t voted to impeach. I had heard this same complaint a few weeks earlier from an angry Elise Stefanik. She told me that, because of my vote to impeach, people were writing letters to the editors of her local papers criticizing her and asking why she hadn’t taken the same “principled” stand I had.”
Stefanik only gets that mention in Cheney’s book. That’s a great story from my perspective, tho. It’s wonderful to know how much Cheney’s sense of duty and honor must annoy her.
Also, “Oath and Honor” has sold about a bazillion copies so I suppose along with being hailed for having a moral compass that’s a nice compensation for losing a House seat.
It makes me wonder what a book by Elise would be, “The Golden Book of Conspiracy Theories?” What would she put into a book? I can’t imagine.
They seem to be a lot more willing to print the disinformation from Chris Talgo. Sometimes it’s necessary to persist in order to get printed. Persist, we do, tho.
Stefanik isn’t going to lose the district in any case. But, if she gets annoyed that’s some consolation. It’s nice to hope the letters form part of an historical record, too.
This news alert came up while I was writing. No surprise. What’s surprising is that at one time she was part of a group pushing for democracy in other countries and is now against it in her own.
Even if she doesn't lose it her behavior can be modified . Even staunch Republicans who will vote for someone simply because they have an "R" next to their name can be incensed by her treasonous, self serving behavior.
Actual election results suggest otherwise. 2018 - when she was still faking being a moderate - was her closest election. 2020 and 2022, after her fascist lurch and Trump bootlicking, have been increasing blowouts.
If she wants to serve outside of NY#21 she will certainly have to modify her behavior. We, all of us, are responsible for making sure voters are aware of her lies and tactics.
Kevin, I followed the link you supplied and watched Kristen Welker interview Elise Stefanik, A couple times I was almost certain Stefanik was about to stumble and fall, however that failed to happen. She is like a Weeble, they may wobble but they don't fall down.
I do not recall ever hearing anyone put so many words together and say so little. Faulty reasoning (fallacies} in the construction of her arguments may appear to be well-reasoned if unnoticed and given the fast rate at which she speaks they are hard to catch. By the time I attempt to figure how they relate and put a name to them the upcoming election will be over.
This opens two questions in my mind, does she, or does she not know that some of her logic has a flaw. Being bias my mind leans towards yes, she knows. She is well-skilled in rhetoric, the art of persuasion, and I believe the fallacies are used intentionally to lead the audience in the direction she wants them to go.
Back when I watched her in the following debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaprhwdoy_w&t=1102s my impression was she was coached on how to play the game of political debate. After watching the video your link led me to my thought how is the once student has now become the master.
Do they? I wrote her about a very benign topic. All I did was ask her to amplify the position she'd already taken. I got a "response" that did not mention one iota of the topic I wrote about. Not even a copy-paste boilerplate on x issue. Just the generic thoughts and concerns of people like you are important to me bullsh**. Letters from constituents may have made a difference before her fascist lurch and before the district was made far more red than before but I have a hard time believing they still do.
Great response, Kevin. I am currently reading Liz Cheney's book and must admit that it affirms my impressions of so many of the current legislators. Mike Johnson makes my blood boil! Surely the GOP could, if they wanted to, find honorable people to serve our country. Unfortunately, the GOP seems to take pleasure in foisting the slimiest on society.
As bad as the House Republicans are, the quality overall is only going to decline. McCarthy is a toad, but his replacement will have no experience and likely be full MAGA. McHenry and Kaye Granger are also leaving. They were arguably normie.
There’s going to be a Republican caucus filled with Greenes, Boeberts, Stefaniks and a list too long. God willing they’ll be in the minority and can howl at the moon til their hearts content.
"It’s a shame to see our local paper, where I worked for 29 years, publishing claptrap that tries to diminish the seriousness of what happened that day."
Sad to say, the Republican effort at whitewashing the history of January 6, 2021, has been quite successful in bringing its base to heel. The percentage of people who believe the falsehood that the storming of the U.S. Capitol was an upright and just action has only increased. (At least the majority of people still see it for what it was — a violent insurrection fomented by a corrupt and traitorous president.) It's one of the ways Republicans are using to justify their anti-democracy, pro-authoritarian actions.
Thankyou for your excellent analysis of this situation. She is despicable liar with no allegiance to her constituents. I wish there was a candidate to give us an alternative. We have had numerous excellent candidates in recent years who simply could not compete with her resources outside our district. She refuses to disclose the percent of political contributions she receives from outside our Congressional District 21. Dr. Roger Ellis
Stefanik is corrupted beyond the point of no return.
Her rhetoric is disgusting and the comments on her social media are absurd and frightening at the same time.
I compare it to my Representative Paul Tonkos .... there's no praise of criminals there and no lies about the attempted insurrection.
I think, I hope that somewhere in the massive evidence they've compiled that her part in all of this comes into light. She knew and actively engaged in trying to overthrow the election.
I also have asked her office who pays for her trips to Maralago which they say are on her dime.
I despise her and her following...if anyone voted for trump first time around I've come to give somewhat of a pass to...but to still support this madman and his accomplices means I won't engage with you again. There's no excuse to support violence, disinformation, racism and authoritarianism.
Stefanik will not follow Liz Cheney's example because unlike Liz Cheney who is a true American patriot and understands her oath taken to the Constitution of the United States, Stefanik is a self serving opportunist who kowtows to those who praise her in such a way as to twist her oath away from the Constitution to an oath of support for a malevolent and destructive individual if she believes it will benefit her personally.
Your writing is inspirational! Please keep informing and education our local communities of the horrific offense and criminal behavior displayed on our capital on January 6, 2020. We cannot afford to lose our American democracy and turn our back on our constitution! Thank you from yesterday’s, today’s and hopefully our future generations’ protection of voters’ choice of turning over our presidency in a fair and peaceful election where all registered voters have a say in who leads our country. We must hold insurrectionists and those committing crimes against our buildings and those who protect them accountable.
Reasonable people can disagree over public policy. But the problem today is not simply over public policy. It's an existential disagreement over basic values. Values that used to hold our country together.
When one major political party and most of its voters no longer accept the results of an election, without proof and after exhausting all legal objections, they no longer accept the basic democratic values. When one major political party and most of its voters promote or condone political violence through the illegal disruption of our basic political processes – for example, the events on January 6, 2021 – they no longer accept the basic value of democracy. When one major political party and most of its elected officials support a presidential candidate who vows retribution against his political opponents, pledges to be a dictator on day one if elected, and states he'll pardon scores of criminals who violently attacked the U.S. Capitol and law enforcement, they no longer accept the basic value of democracy.
People can disagree over today's hot policy issues. That’s what the political process is for. But this year it's different. Democracy itself is on the ballot. Our democratic values as a country are on the ballot. We need to vote as though our country depends upon it. Because it does.
McCarthyism ended and Trumpism will too in my optimistic opinion. It’s gonna wild to watch what happens to the Republican Party after their leader eats his last cheeseburger. They’re all going to be like feral cats going at each other.
It’s party doctrine now to disbelieve the results of elections so they won’t even be able to hold primaries without the loser accusing the winner of cheating. Trump did it against Cruz in Iowa and he’ll do it against Haley if she somehow wins NH.
I really believe the succession after Trump is gone is going to be magnificent to watch. I’m not a great historian, but I have some small knowledge of what happened when English kings died or when Roman caesars died. That’s why the founders established elections to base our democracy on. They knew that history very well.
I certainly hope you're right. Jamelle Bouie has an optimistic opinion column in the NYT titled "Trump Doesn’t Actually Speak for the Silent Majority." In it, he writes:
"What’s been lost — or if not lost then obscured — in the constant attention to Trump’s voters, supporters and followers is that the overall American electorate is consistently anti-MAGA. Trump lost the popular vote in 2016. The MAGA-fied Republican Party lost the House of Representatives in 2018. Trump lost the White House and the Republican Party lost the Senate in 2020. In 2022, Trump-like or Trump-lite candidates lost competitive statewide elections in Georgia, Nevada, Arizona and Pennsylvania. Republicans vastly underperformed expectations in the House, winning back the chamber with a razor-thin margin, and Democrats secured governorships in Kansas, Michigan and Wisconsin, among other states. Democrats overperformed again the following year, in Kentucky and Virginia."
So true, Trip, and I just saw her on Meet the Press and her performance was as memorized and canned full of Trump sound bites always ending in blaming Biden for everything. She takes no responsibility for voting against certifying the election results for Biden, an act that I believe makes her a traitor and a person who violated her oath of office. She has NO business in government, let alone at the level she is currently at.
"Claptrap." An overly polite description of a critically important local newspaper adding fuel to a fire that already burns just fine in our region. Too many North Country people buy into TFG's hateful lies. For the Post Star to print a piece that excuses the January 6th insurrection is absolutely tragic. How many ill informed people will use this as "proof" that the lies they believe are true? Saddest news I've read in a long time.
I just watched Stefanik's latest "political/theatrical performance" on Meet the Press and it turned my stomach. This is a Trump puppet if there ever was one! Morally and ethically bankrupt, a power hungry, back stabbing, headline seeking, soulless individual. Her performance was chock full of Trump sound bites from "witch hunt, hoax, Biden crime family, etc." and clearly memorized comebacks that always end with Biden is corrupt, the border issue is his fault and Schumer's, etc. Sadly, you also pointed out Mark Frost's continued spineless pandering support for her, and since you had a career in journalism, I find his editorializing to be as fake and transparent as Trump and Stefanik. He always writes in a fashion to pretend he's an "Independent" so as not to alienate too many readers or advertisers. From the day she flip flopped after Jan 6 with McCarthy, Graham, etc.,it was clear she was unfit for office. We are in serious trouble this election year if people don't stand up and call out the lies and fake news of Trump and his Kool Aid drinking, punch drunk, right wing bible thumping so called MAGA Evangelicals and REP White Supremacist domestic terrorists of January 6th (Trump now refers to them as hostages although we watched on TV with our own eyes and clearly could see what actually happened). With the explosion of fake social media posts and the silos of right wing Trump extreme lies, combined with the new world of AI, 2024 election will become one of the most controversial and corrupt in history, and may be the last one under our American Democratic experiment of almost 250 years if Trump and REPs win.
Sorry
Will, Stefanik is in too deep!!! She won't abandon her ignorant rants until she's voted out of office, or is picked as trumps running mate and loses the election...looks like we're stuck with her for the duration...sooo sad.
These folks and their enablers are a constant reminder that there are many, many ways to be despicable.
Thank you for publicly standing up to bullies like Elise Stefanik. She and her cohort of anti-democracy authoritarians are leading their personality cult followers down a dark and dangerous path of trashing our country's constitution. Let's all speak up against this travesty, and be sure to vote in 2024 — it's our only chance to maintain our democratic values.
Well said Bob.
Karma can’t come too soon for demagogues like Elise Stefanik and propagandists like Chris Talgo. What a sad existence these people must have. Liz Cheney may no longer have a seat in Congress, but she has her dignity and doesn’t have to serve Donald Trump.
Imagine the shame one must feel to graduate Harvard and go on to be a congressional lapdog for the most ignorant, least patriotic man ever to hold the presidency.
“Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey, who had been a Republican for even less time than Donald Trump, said my vote had made it hard for him to explain to people in his swing district why he hadn’t voted to impeach. I had heard this same complaint a few weeks earlier from an angry Elise Stefanik. She told me that, because of my vote to impeach, people were writing letters to the editors of her local papers criticizing her and asking why she hadn’t taken the same “principled” stand I had.”
Stefanik only gets that mention in Cheney’s book. That’s a great story from my perspective, tho. It’s wonderful to know how much Cheney’s sense of duty and honor must annoy her.
Also, “Oath and Honor” has sold about a bazillion copies so I suppose along with being hailed for having a moral compass that’s a nice compensation for losing a House seat.
It makes me wonder what a book by Elise would be, “The Golden Book of Conspiracy Theories?” What would she put into a book? I can’t imagine.
More people need to write letters. Stefanik’s people keep track.
They seem to be a lot more willing to print the disinformation from Chris Talgo. Sometimes it’s necessary to persist in order to get printed. Persist, we do, tho.
Stefanik isn’t going to lose the district in any case. But, if she gets annoyed that’s some consolation. It’s nice to hope the letters form part of an historical record, too.
This news alert came up while I was writing. No surprise. What’s surprising is that at one time she was part of a group pushing for democracy in other countries and is now against it in her own.
https://www.aol.com/gop-rep-elise-stefanik-wont-142212896.html
Even if she doesn't lose it her behavior can be modified . Even staunch Republicans who will vote for someone simply because they have an "R" next to their name can be incensed by her treasonous, self serving behavior.
Actual election results suggest otherwise. 2018 - when she was still faking being a moderate - was her closest election. 2020 and 2022, after her fascist lurch and Trump bootlicking, have been increasing blowouts.
If she wants to serve outside of NY#21 she will certainly have to modify her behavior. We, all of us, are responsible for making sure voters are aware of her lies and tactics.
Because she draws in massive out of district funding and outspends opponents ten fold.
Kevin, I followed the link you supplied and watched Kristen Welker interview Elise Stefanik, A couple times I was almost certain Stefanik was about to stumble and fall, however that failed to happen. She is like a Weeble, they may wobble but they don't fall down.
I do not recall ever hearing anyone put so many words together and say so little. Faulty reasoning (fallacies} in the construction of her arguments may appear to be well-reasoned if unnoticed and given the fast rate at which she speaks they are hard to catch. By the time I attempt to figure how they relate and put a name to them the upcoming election will be over.
This opens two questions in my mind, does she, or does she not know that some of her logic has a flaw. Being bias my mind leans towards yes, she knows. She is well-skilled in rhetoric, the art of persuasion, and I believe the fallacies are used intentionally to lead the audience in the direction she wants them to go.
Back when I watched her in the following debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaprhwdoy_w&t=1102s my impression was she was coached on how to play the game of political debate. After watching the video your link led me to my thought how is the once student has now become the master.
I’m curious too if she has brainwashed herself into believing all of it or if it’s a cynical ploy.
Kevin brainwashing oneself leads me to some confusing thoughts, I like it
Ever listen to one of her telephone town halls? Lots of fast talk with no real substance and never actually answers your questions!
Do they? I wrote her about a very benign topic. All I did was ask her to amplify the position she'd already taken. I got a "response" that did not mention one iota of the topic I wrote about. Not even a copy-paste boilerplate on x issue. Just the generic thoughts and concerns of people like you are important to me bullsh**. Letters from constituents may have made a difference before her fascist lurch and before the district was made far more red than before but I have a hard time believing they still do.
She is the epitome of an “empty suit”. As the real ranchers say “All cowboy hat and no cattle”.
Great response, Kevin. I am currently reading Liz Cheney's book and must admit that it affirms my impressions of so many of the current legislators. Mike Johnson makes my blood boil! Surely the GOP could, if they wanted to, find honorable people to serve our country. Unfortunately, the GOP seems to take pleasure in foisting the slimiest on society.
As bad as the House Republicans are, the quality overall is only going to decline. McCarthy is a toad, but his replacement will have no experience and likely be full MAGA. McHenry and Kaye Granger are also leaving. They were arguably normie.
There’s going to be a Republican caucus filled with Greenes, Boeberts, Stefaniks and a list too long. God willing they’ll be in the minority and can howl at the moon til their hearts content.
They don't want to. Their positions are not popular with most Americans. Their M.O. is 'the end justifies the means"
"It’s a shame to see our local paper, where I worked for 29 years, publishing claptrap that tries to diminish the seriousness of what happened that day."
Sad to say, the Republican effort at whitewashing the history of January 6, 2021, has been quite successful in bringing its base to heel. The percentage of people who believe the falsehood that the storming of the U.S. Capitol was an upright and just action has only increased. (At least the majority of people still see it for what it was — a violent insurrection fomented by a corrupt and traitorous president.) It's one of the ways Republicans are using to justify their anti-democracy, pro-authoritarian actions.
Thankyou for your excellent analysis of this situation. She is despicable liar with no allegiance to her constituents. I wish there was a candidate to give us an alternative. We have had numerous excellent candidates in recent years who simply could not compete with her resources outside our district. She refuses to disclose the percent of political contributions she receives from outside our Congressional District 21. Dr. Roger Ellis
Very good post.
Stefanik is corrupted beyond the point of no return.
Her rhetoric is disgusting and the comments on her social media are absurd and frightening at the same time.
I compare it to my Representative Paul Tonkos .... there's no praise of criminals there and no lies about the attempted insurrection.
I think, I hope that somewhere in the massive evidence they've compiled that her part in all of this comes into light. She knew and actively engaged in trying to overthrow the election.
I also have asked her office who pays for her trips to Maralago which they say are on her dime.
I despise her and her following...if anyone voted for trump first time around I've come to give somewhat of a pass to...but to still support this madman and his accomplices means I won't engage with you again. There's no excuse to support violence, disinformation, racism and authoritarianism.
So far, we ALL agree with each other.....thank you, Will. Scary times.
“Gotcha politics” will never heal our nations wounds!
Sorry Will. Hell has a better chance of freezing before Stefanik ever thinks to emulate Cheney's actions.
Stefanik will not follow Liz Cheney's example because unlike Liz Cheney who is a true American patriot and understands her oath taken to the Constitution of the United States, Stefanik is a self serving opportunist who kowtows to those who praise her in such a way as to twist her oath away from the Constitution to an oath of support for a malevolent and destructive individual if she believes it will benefit her personally.
Your writing is inspirational! Please keep informing and education our local communities of the horrific offense and criminal behavior displayed on our capital on January 6, 2020. We cannot afford to lose our American democracy and turn our back on our constitution! Thank you from yesterday’s, today’s and hopefully our future generations’ protection of voters’ choice of turning over our presidency in a fair and peaceful election where all registered voters have a say in who leads our country. We must hold insurrectionists and those committing crimes against our buildings and those who protect them accountable.
Reasonable people can disagree over public policy. But the problem today is not simply over public policy. It's an existential disagreement over basic values. Values that used to hold our country together.
When one major political party and most of its voters no longer accept the results of an election, without proof and after exhausting all legal objections, they no longer accept the basic democratic values. When one major political party and most of its voters promote or condone political violence through the illegal disruption of our basic political processes – for example, the events on January 6, 2021 – they no longer accept the basic value of democracy. When one major political party and most of its elected officials support a presidential candidate who vows retribution against his political opponents, pledges to be a dictator on day one if elected, and states he'll pardon scores of criminals who violently attacked the U.S. Capitol and law enforcement, they no longer accept the basic value of democracy.
People can disagree over today's hot policy issues. That’s what the political process is for. But this year it's different. Democracy itself is on the ballot. Our democratic values as a country are on the ballot. We need to vote as though our country depends upon it. Because it does.
McCarthyism ended and Trumpism will too in my optimistic opinion. It’s gonna wild to watch what happens to the Republican Party after their leader eats his last cheeseburger. They’re all going to be like feral cats going at each other.
It’s party doctrine now to disbelieve the results of elections so they won’t even be able to hold primaries without the loser accusing the winner of cheating. Trump did it against Cruz in Iowa and he’ll do it against Haley if she somehow wins NH.
I really believe the succession after Trump is gone is going to be magnificent to watch. I’m not a great historian, but I have some small knowledge of what happened when English kings died or when Roman caesars died. That’s why the founders established elections to base our democracy on. They knew that history very well.
I certainly hope you're right. Jamelle Bouie has an optimistic opinion column in the NYT titled "Trump Doesn’t Actually Speak for the Silent Majority." In it, he writes:
"What’s been lost — or if not lost then obscured — in the constant attention to Trump’s voters, supporters and followers is that the overall American electorate is consistently anti-MAGA. Trump lost the popular vote in 2016. The MAGA-fied Republican Party lost the House of Representatives in 2018. Trump lost the White House and the Republican Party lost the Senate in 2020. In 2022, Trump-like or Trump-lite candidates lost competitive statewide elections in Georgia, Nevada, Arizona and Pennsylvania. Republicans vastly underperformed expectations in the House, winning back the chamber with a razor-thin margin, and Democrats secured governorships in Kansas, Michigan and Wisconsin, among other states. Democrats overperformed again the following year, in Kentucky and Virginia."
Historically speaking optimism is a thin rope to hold the future.
I had some thoughts: https://mikeparwana.substack.com/p/reading-august-in-kabul
I hope you are right. Recovery from Trumpism seems almost impossible at times.
🙏
Will, Stefanik is evermore power hungry and won’t be changing her tune until Trump and she are defeated at the ballot booth.
So true, Trip, and I just saw her on Meet the Press and her performance was as memorized and canned full of Trump sound bites always ending in blaming Biden for everything. She takes no responsibility for voting against certifying the election results for Biden, an act that I believe makes her a traitor and a person who violated her oath of office. She has NO business in government, let alone at the level she is currently at.
"Claptrap." An overly polite description of a critically important local newspaper adding fuel to a fire that already burns just fine in our region. Too many North Country people buy into TFG's hateful lies. For the Post Star to print a piece that excuses the January 6th insurrection is absolutely tragic. How many ill informed people will use this as "proof" that the lies they believe are true? Saddest news I've read in a long time.
I just watched Stefanik's latest "political/theatrical performance" on Meet the Press and it turned my stomach. This is a Trump puppet if there ever was one! Morally and ethically bankrupt, a power hungry, back stabbing, headline seeking, soulless individual. Her performance was chock full of Trump sound bites from "witch hunt, hoax, Biden crime family, etc." and clearly memorized comebacks that always end with Biden is corrupt, the border issue is his fault and Schumer's, etc. Sadly, you also pointed out Mark Frost's continued spineless pandering support for her, and since you had a career in journalism, I find his editorializing to be as fake and transparent as Trump and Stefanik. He always writes in a fashion to pretend he's an "Independent" so as not to alienate too many readers or advertisers. From the day she flip flopped after Jan 6 with McCarthy, Graham, etc.,it was clear she was unfit for office. We are in serious trouble this election year if people don't stand up and call out the lies and fake news of Trump and his Kool Aid drinking, punch drunk, right wing bible thumping so called MAGA Evangelicals and REP White Supremacist domestic terrorists of January 6th (Trump now refers to them as hostages although we watched on TV with our own eyes and clearly could see what actually happened). With the explosion of fake social media posts and the silos of right wing Trump extreme lies, combined with the new world of AI, 2024 election will become one of the most controversial and corrupt in history, and may be the last one under our American Democratic experiment of almost 250 years if Trump and REPs win.