Well said, Will, as always. The "others" are so polarized right now. they don't know the difference between right and wrong and what's worse, they don't care.....
Hey Dave my grandmother once told me if I could say something nice, I shouldn’t say anything at all. Your right I looked it “The term "mast" refers to a long pole or spar that rises from the keel or deck of a ship, supporting the yards, booms, and rigging. It is a crucial structure on a boat or ship that holds the sails. In nautical terminology, the mast is essential for the operation and stability of sailing vessels.”
The President is head of the Country. Orders should be met. You don’t disobey orders because of a belief that you have for yourselves. Our flag in our home is at half staff. Out of Respect. We all liked Charlie Kirk. It’s sad that you don’t realize that he followed his faith. He conducted rally’s to help the young whether you were black or white straight or not. It was all about making the right choices for yourself and young people flocked back to god, or ones who did not know god , got to know him. He did not practice reterick . He spoke the truth. I conducted rally’s in schools in the late 80’s till about 1990. He carried on the torch. We discussed everything from crime to work to having boys dress as if going on an interview or going to church looking proper. Then the next week we had the girls dressing up the same way. If you did not have a suit or tie we,,cops teachers supplied them for the day. These kids learned many things from us. We taught them how to be men and women . These kids had to leave there hardware on a table outside. At the end of 8weeks we had three tables set up. Some took there hardware back. Some left gangs to join us, some didn’t. We had to close up shop because the tide was changing. We began to have leaders of gangs try to get up on stage to hurt me, I wore a bullet proof vest. And what Charlie Kirk did not have is at that College enough security there to protect everyone. The college should have sought out more security just as his people should have. You need swatt teams on roofs and tight security .Metel detectors in this day and age. At our rally’s we had a lot of security plain clothes. Uniformed inside. Ours were big we got invited to schools also, and I moved to talk about aids and protection. Just wanted to let you know what kind of rallies we perfumed. To save the youth from themselves. And we taught many and saved many. And some died. God Bless.
I don't agree with your characterization of Kirk, but am keeping those thoughts mostly to myself until after he is buried. Suffice it to say that, while you and many admired him, an equal number had strong feeling in the opposite direction. And perhaps your neighbors who feel that way, their feelings should be taken into account, too. But we are NOT under any obligation to lower flags because the President signed an E.O. That only applies to federal buildings; so we are stuck with it at the post office, but do not have to see it at our municipal building. Unfortunately, this President continues to polarize the country by word and action and we will continue to be at each other's throats as long as he is in office.
I will add that this adds to the notion of NOT lowering the flag to half mast to celebrate of vitriol of a republican pundit.. That is to say if a politician wanted to lower the flag to half mast for every innocent person killed by a gun
"Half-mast" has one literal, traditional meaning and a few slang or informal extensions, all referring to something being halfway down. The traditional meaning is a flag flown halfway down a flagpole or ship's mast as a sign of mourning or respect. Slang uses include describing a person's pants as "at half-mast" when worn low around or below the hips, or someone's eyelids as "at half-mast" when they are drowsy. "
ª I understand you are suggesting because he is president, we should follow his dictates. and ignore that very same person has ignored court rulings? Who has voided many of the laws in the constitution? Who when the flags were at halfmast for Jimmy Carter, should be raised because he didn't like the look.*
ª That we should assume people will try to kill people and should have security for that at all times? I would like that.. since I have a person who is giving out shadow threats to me... she has a cadre of followers who she hopes will help her or do her evil (I would suggest the president is engaging in that same behavior)
I firmly believe too many people are killed out of hate (
* Should we also say all the convicted criminals are not criminals if the president says that? (Side note, anyone who accepts a presidential pardon can only do so if they admit their guilt)
EDIT: if this isn't your point, I am sorry, and will you clarify.
Mr. Kirk believed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a destructive force in American politics, calling its passage a “mistake” that he said has been turned into “an anti-white weapon
He also blamed the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for the law and was highly critical of the slain civil rights leader, calling him an “awful” person. Mr. Kirk said he desired a colorblind society but blamed the veneration of Dr. King for what he saw as America’s fixation on race.
Mr. Kirk was also a staunch opponent of affirmative action and was highly critical of the Supreme Court justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, calling her a “diversity hire” who wasn’t qualified to serve on the highest court.
In 2021, while delivering a speech in Mankato, Minn., Mr. Kirk called George Floyd — the Black man whose murder by a Minneapolis police officer in 2020 provoked a broad racial justice movement — a “scumbag” who wasn’t worthy of the attention.
He was a proponent of “replacement theory,” a once-fringe conspiracy theory positing that Jews are trying to replace white Americans with nonwhite immigrants. That ideology motivated the gunman who killed 11 worshipers at a Pittsburgh synagogue in 2018.
(you will be pleased to know on that last one, pos_tfnkkk also exposed replacement theory)
====
would you like more.. I have read a lot of essays by people of color who explained as a marginalized group how chuckles KiKrK spread hate that fell onto their shoulders.
I am not a cristian.. so I don't know are those good things for people who say they are cristians?
If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024
If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 8 December 2022
Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that’s a fact. It’s happening more and more.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 19 May 2023
If I’m dealing with somebody in customer service who’s a moronic Black woman, I wonder is she there because of her excellence, or is she there because of affirmative action?
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 3 January 2024
If we would have said that Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Sheila Jackson Lee and Ketanji Brown Jackson were affirmative action picks, we would have been called racists. Now they’re coming out and they’re saying it for us … You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person’s slot to go be taken somewhat seriously.
Is the "we" in "We all liked Charlie Kirk." here in the room with us?
Charlie Kirk has used religious rhetoric, the structure of public debate, and repeated logical fallacies to promote harmful narratives targeting specific groups. His approach misrepresents opposing views, exploits the debate format, and contributes to the marginalization of vulnerable communities. This pattern reflects bad-faith engagement designed to distort discourse and cause harm. If Kirk had shown more nuance—such as acknowledging facts, conceding his points, or finding common ground with opposing views—the situation would be different.
What does it mean to engage in debate in bad faith? It means pretending to seek honest dialogue while pursuing a hidden agenda. Charlie Kirk repeatedly demonstrated this tactic. His goal was not to foster understanding, but to win arguments and reinforce his own beliefs. This approach differs significantly from open dialogue, which—at its best—uses free speech to build mutual understanding. Kirk ignored factual accuracy, prioritized biased interpretations, and knowingly relied on fringe or misleading claims to justify his messaging. He frequently used straw-man arguments to avoid addressing legitimate counterpoints. He also employed numerous logical fallacies to discredit opposing views, while refusing to engage with nuance or contrary evidence (e.g., correlation vs. causation fallacy, burden of proof fallacy, false equivalence, ad hominem attacks, strawman fallacy, et etc.)
Charlie Kirk distorts religious doctrine and data to justify prejudice. He selectively cites or misinterprets religious texts to claim that faith demands the marginalization of certain groups—even when broader religious traditions reject that view. He does the same with selected ambiguous data. He frames these arguments as neutral or intellectual discussions about morality. In reality, they serve as a cover for promoting discrimination and bigotry. Kirk constructs misleading arguments designed to be easily refuted, avoiding serious engagement with legitimate counterpoints.
See Kirks' following comments on the following topics as examples of his tactics to promote hateful narratives targeting specific groups:
On Race
"If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024
"If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?" – The Charlie Kirk Show, 8 December 2022
"Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that’s a fact. It’s happening more and more." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 19 May 2023
"If I’m dealing with somebody in customer service who’s a moronic Black woman, I wonder is she there because of her excellence, or is she there because of affirmative action?" – The Charlie Kirk Show, 3 January 2024
"If we would have said that Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Sheila Jackson Lee and Ketanji Brown Jackson were affirmative action picks, we would have been called racists. Now they’re coming out and they’re saying it for us … You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person’s slot to go be taken somewhat seriously." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 13 July 2023
On Debate (and literally exhibiting a logical fallacy--burden of proof)
"Prove me wrong." - Charlie Kirk's The American Comeback Tour
On Gender, Feminism, and Reproductive Rights
"Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge." – Discussing news of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce’s engagement on The Charlie Kirk Show, 26 August 2025
"The answer is yes, the baby would be delivered." – Responding to a question about whether he would support his 10-year-old daughter aborting a pregnancy conceived because of rape on the debate show Surrounded, published on 8 September 2024
"We need to have a Nuremberg-style trial for every gender-affirming clinic doctor. We need it immediately." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 1 April 2024
On Immigration
"The American Democrat party hates this country. They wanna see it collapse. They love it when America becomes less white." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 20 March 2024
"The great replacement strategy, which is well under way every single day in our southern border, is a strategy to replace white rural America with something different." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 1 March 2024
On Religion
"America has freedom of religion, of course, but we should be frank: large dedicated Islamic areas are a threat to America." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 30 April 2025
"There is no separation of church and state. It’s a fabrication, it’s a fiction, it’s not in the constitution. It’s made up by secular humanists." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 6 July 2022
As your own position, let's break down your logical fallacies...
You stated, “The President is head of the country. Orders should be met.” This reflects a false appeal to authority. Holding a position of power does not mean directives must be followed without question. In the U.S. system of government, the President is not an absolute authority. The Constitution establishes a separation of powers and a system of checks and balances. Presidential directives do not carry the same legal weight as federal laws, which must be passed by Congress and signed by the President. Executive orders cannot create new laws or authorize spending not approved by Congress. For an executive order to be valid, it must be based on authority granted by the Constitution or by statute. If a President exceeds this authority, the directive can be challenged in court and overturned. Additionally, executive orders and other presidential directives can be rescinded or amended by future Presidents.
You wrote, “Our flag in our home is at half staff. Out of Respect.” In context, this is an appeal to emotion. It’s designed to evoke sympathy or reverence, but it does not advance a logical argument or address the substance of the discussion with Ibby.
You claim that “young people flocked back to God” because of Kirk’s rallies. This is a false cause fallacy—mistaking a sequence of events for a cause-and-effect relationship (post hoc ergo propter hoc). This oversimplifies a complex issue. It cherry-picks Kirk’s events as the primary driver of a broader trend in religiosity, while ignoring other cultural, political, and personal factors that influence spiritual engagement. Claims like this require substantial evidence. To establish causation, one would need rigorous research that accounts for multiple variables. Without that, the claim remains unverified. Finally, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim—not with others to disprove it.
You stated, “You don’t disobey orders because of a belief that you have for yourselves.” This presents a false dichotomy. It implies that personal belief is the only reason someone might disobey an order—and that such a reason is inherently invalid. This framing shuts down legitimate discussion. There are multiple valid reasons for disobeying an order: the order may be illegal or unethical, based on incomplete or faulty information, or physically impossible to carry out. Reducing complex decisions to a binary choice—obedience or invalid belief—oversimplifies reality and mirrors the rhetorical tactics often used by Kirk to avoid nuance.
You stated, “He did not practice reterick[sic] He spoke the truth.” This reflects a misunderstanding of what rhetoric is and sets up a false dichotomy between rhetoric and truth. Rhetoric is simply the art of persuasive communication. It can be used to express truth—or falsehood. Suggesting that truth and rhetoric are mutually exclusive misrepresents both concepts. Additionally, asserting that Kirk “spoke the truth” dismisses any criticism by framing his statements as inherently valid, without evidence or analysis.
But yes, "We all like Charlie Kirk." We know you do. Apparently, you like what he says.
He didn’t target groups, young people asked questions and answered as truthfully as he could.yes, God is, has always been a plus in the rally’s. I used to do rally’s for the youth. Almost the same way.
"I had heard Kirk’s name but wasn’t sure until this week what he did. Numerous other Americans are first learning about him now."
I too have heard his name, but never read anything he wrote, listened to anything he ever said, or read about him on right-wing news sites. As such, I was unaware of the following he seemed to have had. So the reaction of many people to his death came as a bit of a surprise to me. And it also apparently surprised many others.
I raise this because I think it’s indicative of the polarization and fragmentation of our country. Typically, when the country goes into mourning for the loss of a well-known person, it’s something of a shared loss. We feel it, to one degree or another, and instinctively understand the loss others may feel.
I think it’s significant that this loss of life, this abhorrent and senseless death, affects different parts of America in profoundly different ways. Some take it personally; some more abstractly; for some, it has little meaning.
Perhaps this is a mirror image, to some degree, of the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder, or the murder of Minnesota House of Representatives Speaker Emerita Melissa Hortman and her husband.
Not a good indication of where our country is right now, or where we’re headed.
...[my understanding is that] we are not subject to any president's orders: we are subject to laws / furthermore: we are not any president's subjects / But: what about leaving flags at half-staff [and half-mast] until: this presidency is history?...
Unfortunately, Trumpty Dumpty has no plans to leave the presidency, even after this disgraceful term ends. He's already on record saying he doesn't believe in the two-term restriction. Most telling is that he's lining up government, SCOTUS, the military and millions of his rabid MAGAts to back up his insanity. Just wait and see.
It seems like after 9/11 the flag has been at half staff about half the time. Often enough so that it’s barely noticeable.
I didn’t pay much attention to Kirk. One of his bon mots that crossed my radar was that he wouldn’t fly on a plane that had a Black pilot. He especially questioned the intelligence of Black women. Our “representative” is pushing for the firing of teachers who said bad things about this deceased racist online. Free speech isn’t free in her America.
Since she’s pushed the racist replacement theory it’s not surprising that Kirk’s racism wouldn’t bother her. Birds of a feather.
Trump has disgraced the flag and the country for a decade and more now. I look forward to it being at half staff for him. It’s obvious we’re not going to be able to start the recovery process until then.
And for the record, he also pushed the Big Lie about the 2020 election being fraudulent. But, of course he did.
Condolences to his family and friends and all. But, if the MAGA folk are going to push the notion that he walked on water then a little reality needs to shine in.
I also had never heard of Charlie Kirk. I feel bad for his surviving family, but it sounds like the hate he promoted was the hate that killed him. He has become just another brick in the 'wall of hate'. There will be more, sadly.
“…but it sounds like the hate he promoted was the hate that killed him.” That is the absolute truth. As I said before to someone, he died by the sword he lived by.
Especially troubling in New York, where Kirk's white supremacist and white replacement rhetoric were reportedly the motivation for 18 year old Payton Gendron's mass murder at the Topps Market in Buffalo NY in 2022. American society is not just as sick today as it was at the time of the Kennedy and MLK killings, but even more deranged. Charlie Kirk lived by the sword that killed him, saying himself that guns are the answer to that derangement. Lower the flags, and you promote that deranged delusion, America.
Kirk and Elise Stefanik were friends and they shared in spreading the rhetoric of replacement theory that motivated the young white make with a gun to murder at the Tops Market.
There is a thread of complicity running throughout the Republican Party. We heard a lot of then decrying the violent left immediately after the shooting, but their messaging has changed since we found that the shooter is likely a far right extremist.
The latest word is that the shooter was not a right-wing extremist. But that seems like a questionable inference by the Governor. We will have to wait for more information in coming weeks.
I agree with you that our flag should not be raised for a racist and white supremacist. However, our flag should by permanently positioned at half-staff until Trump leaves office. We mourn everyday over the cruelty and stupidity that he exhibits everyday while he tears our democracy apart.
Exactly! Kirk was not a man to receive the type of recognition he is getting. I feel for his children and don’t like the way he was killed killed, but he was a racist and not a very nice man, in my opinion.
Update, Sunday 9 a.m.: Mayor Collins just got back to me and said the flags being at half-staff were not for Charlie Kirk but to honor 9/11 heroes. The 9/11 observance is officially from sunrise to sunset on that day, known as Patriot Day, and Trump ordered the observance for Kirk to run through Sunday (today), which is why I thought, seeing the local flags lowered on Saturday, it was for Kirk. But these federal flag-lowering directives are guidance, or suggestions, without the force of law, and local communities can go their own way. So I'm glad we're not engaging in the immediate rewriting of Charlie Kirk's legacy, as so much of the country is. Pres. Trump, for example, says he intends to award Kirk the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the country's highest civilian honor. Who's next, Alex Jones?
Kirk's stand-in at the medal ceremony will have to stand in line behind Adolph Ghouliani, who was already named as an upcoming recipient. What a worthless scrap of metal that "prestigious" award has become. Ditto for Nobel Peace prize if that selection committee also kowtows to the dictator (emphasis on first syllable).
Thanks for the update, Will. Though I'm still confused about the mayor's explanation. If the City Hall flag was at half-staff to mark 9/11 (Thursday), then why is still lowered when you saw it Saturday? Does that mean the mayor or someone else made the decision to honor Kirk, or doesn't the city have an employee who'd return the flag to full staff at dark on Thursday? Sure hope it's the latter. I'll bet most, if not all, Republican/Conservative-dominated municipal and county governments, and service departments under their jurisdiction, still have flags at half-staff specifically to "honor" Kirk and tRump's directive. Another commenter already confirmed someone in Moreau town government directed flags at half-staff. Abuse of the American flag continues.
To quote a Twitter account that I follow, "We don't lower flags for white nationalists just because the white nationalist in the oval office is a white nationalist,"
OK Will...the flag was at half-mast to commemorate 9/11!!!!! NOT the asshole who was shot.
Will you PLEASE research your comments as they relate to our Mayor more thoroughly. I understand you don't "like" him...however, these subtle jabs are waay beneath you. You KNOW I'm a HUGE fan of yours, so, this behavior really disappoints me.
Well, I just got a call back from the mayor, and I clarified above based on what he told me. I don't dislike the mayor. I did endorse Diana Palmer for the Democratic nomination, but I explained why and it wasn't because I dislike Bill Collins.
So, the mayor says the city traditionally leaves the flags at half-staff for several days to commemorate 9/11, which is not customary (customarily, they are lowered just for 9/11) but I didn't receive that information until today. Not the mayor's fault, since I didn't call until Saturday, which is when I noticed the flags.
When told Kirk had been assassinated, I immediately said wasn't that guy a former Florida congressman, but the friend quickly set me straight. So, I read several articles about him that included lots of his personal life in addition to his absolutely horrendous hate speech and actions. It sickened me, especially because he was given credit for propagandizing the country's youth into his deep, black hole for which Repuklicans/Conservatives provided the shovel. The hate-filled lives are becoming -- figuratively and literally -- hereditary, it's in their genes, just like autism, alcoholism and other DNA irregularities. Saddest part is there are millions of young and old who are in his cult of madness.
To some of your neighbors saw Mr. Kirk as a soldier for the MAGA cause, now a martyr. Soon enough the Catholics will petition for sanctification, a step towards sainthood.
Well said, Will, as always. The "others" are so polarized right now. they don't know the difference between right and wrong and what's worse, they don't care.....
Jim, the flag was at half mast to commemorate 9/11
Masts are on boats, clown.
Hey Dave my grandmother once told me if I could say something nice, I shouldn’t say anything at all. Your right I looked it “The term "mast" refers to a long pole or spar that rises from the keel or deck of a ship, supporting the yards, booms, and rigging. It is a crucial structure on a boat or ship that holds the sails. In nautical terminology, the mast is essential for the operation and stability of sailing vessels.”
That was the nice part you clown.
I, and whoever is in charge of NYC’s Soldiers and Sailors Monument’s flag agree with you. Its flag has been at full staff all weekend.
The President is head of the Country. Orders should be met. You don’t disobey orders because of a belief that you have for yourselves. Our flag in our home is at half staff. Out of Respect. We all liked Charlie Kirk. It’s sad that you don’t realize that he followed his faith. He conducted rally’s to help the young whether you were black or white straight or not. It was all about making the right choices for yourself and young people flocked back to god, or ones who did not know god , got to know him. He did not practice reterick . He spoke the truth. I conducted rally’s in schools in the late 80’s till about 1990. He carried on the torch. We discussed everything from crime to work to having boys dress as if going on an interview or going to church looking proper. Then the next week we had the girls dressing up the same way. If you did not have a suit or tie we,,cops teachers supplied them for the day. These kids learned many things from us. We taught them how to be men and women . These kids had to leave there hardware on a table outside. At the end of 8weeks we had three tables set up. Some took there hardware back. Some left gangs to join us, some didn’t. We had to close up shop because the tide was changing. We began to have leaders of gangs try to get up on stage to hurt me, I wore a bullet proof vest. And what Charlie Kirk did not have is at that College enough security there to protect everyone. The college should have sought out more security just as his people should have. You need swatt teams on roofs and tight security .Metel detectors in this day and age. At our rally’s we had a lot of security plain clothes. Uniformed inside. Ours were big we got invited to schools also, and I moved to talk about aids and protection. Just wanted to let you know what kind of rallies we perfumed. To save the youth from themselves. And we taught many and saved many. And some died. God Bless.
I don't agree with your characterization of Kirk, but am keeping those thoughts mostly to myself until after he is buried. Suffice it to say that, while you and many admired him, an equal number had strong feeling in the opposite direction. And perhaps your neighbors who feel that way, their feelings should be taken into account, too. But we are NOT under any obligation to lower flags because the President signed an E.O. That only applies to federal buildings; so we are stuck with it at the post office, but do not have to see it at our municipal building. Unfortunately, this President continues to polarize the country by word and action and we will continue to be at each other's throats as long as he is in office.
Interesting, I’d like to talk more on this after he is buried. Thanks for your input Irene Baldwin. Have a Blessed Day
You as well, Nancy.
We sure could use more polite conversation like that from parties that disagree - these days its unusual! Very reassuring to hear.
I agree with you the GF City Hall flag was at half mast to commemorate 9/11...NOT Kirk
At the town of Moreau it is being flown at half mast for Kirk. .I asked. It's revolting.
My recollection is that we began to be at each other's throats even before Obama took office and he sure as hell didn't hell matters.
The country has been violently split at various times in its history, most notably during the Civil War. That doesn't make it any less worrisome now.
Just for the record, the flag at City Hall was a half mast to commemorate 9/11!!!
Thank you for clarifying.
I also thank you for this clarification..
I will add that this adds to the notion of NOT lowering the flag to half mast to celebrate of vitriol of a republican pundit.. That is to say if a politician wanted to lower the flag to half mast for every innocent person killed by a gun
We would always be at half mast and despair
Masts are on boats, clown.
AI thinks you are a fool
"Half-mast" has one literal, traditional meaning and a few slang or informal extensions, all referring to something being halfway down. The traditional meaning is a flag flown halfway down a flagpole or ship's mast as a sign of mourning or respect. Slang uses include describing a person's pants as "at half-mast" when worn low around or below the hips, or someone's eyelids as "at half-mast" when they are drowsy. "
but one that doesn't care if people know it
thank you
I’m saying to lower flags . I did not say not too.
I am not sure if I am reading this right.
ª I understand you are suggesting because he is president, we should follow his dictates. and ignore that very same person has ignored court rulings? Who has voided many of the laws in the constitution? Who when the flags were at halfmast for Jimmy Carter, should be raised because he didn't like the look.*
ª That we should assume people will try to kill people and should have security for that at all times? I would like that.. since I have a person who is giving out shadow threats to me... she has a cadre of followers who she hopes will help her or do her evil (I would suggest the president is engaging in that same behavior)
I firmly believe too many people are killed out of hate (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(before_2000)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2000%E2%80%93present), but I am not sure making some a martyr for political gain is the way to curry favor with those that have hate in their heart.
* Should we also say all the convicted criminals are not criminals if the president says that? (Side note, anyone who accepts a presidential pardon can only do so if they admit their guilt)
EDIT: if this isn't your point, I am sorry, and will you clarify.
Where do you get your info from? You’re allowed to appeal your case.
If you look close you wll see to links in that post
More: https://racism.org/articles/defining-racism/white-privilege/12835-charlie-kirk-white-supremacist
racist things chuckles said:
"If I see a black pilot I am going to be like, 'boy I hope he is qualified"
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/fact-check-real-charlie-kirk-214400078.html
more
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/11/us/charlie-kirk-views-guns-gender-climate.html
Mr. Kirk believed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a destructive force in American politics, calling its passage a “mistake” that he said has been turned into “an anti-white weapon
He also blamed the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for the law and was highly critical of the slain civil rights leader, calling him an “awful” person. Mr. Kirk said he desired a colorblind society but blamed the veneration of Dr. King for what he saw as America’s fixation on race.
Mr. Kirk was also a staunch opponent of affirmative action and was highly critical of the Supreme Court justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, calling her a “diversity hire” who wasn’t qualified to serve on the highest court.
In 2021, while delivering a speech in Mankato, Minn., Mr. Kirk called George Floyd — the Black man whose murder by a Minneapolis police officer in 2020 provoked a broad racial justice movement — a “scumbag” who wasn’t worthy of the attention.
He was a proponent of “replacement theory,” a once-fringe conspiracy theory positing that Jews are trying to replace white Americans with nonwhite immigrants. That ideology motivated the gunman who killed 11 worshipers at a Pittsburgh synagogue in 2018.
(you will be pleased to know on that last one, pos_tfnkkk also exposed replacement theory)
====
would you like more.. I have read a lot of essays by people of color who explained as a marginalized group how chuckles KiKrK spread hate that fell onto their shoulders.
I am not a cristian.. so I don't know are those good things for people who say they are cristians?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk-quotes-beliefs
On race
If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024
If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 8 December 2022
Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that’s a fact. It’s happening more and more.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 19 May 2023
If I’m dealing with somebody in customer service who’s a moronic Black woman, I wonder is she there because of her excellence, or is she there because of affirmative action?
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 3 January 2024
If we would have said that Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Sheila Jackson Lee and Ketanji Brown Jackson were affirmative action picks, we would have been called racists. Now they’re coming out and they’re saying it for us … You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person’s slot to go be taken somewhat seriously.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 13 July 2023
It's an enigma, Nancy. Isn't it?
Is the "we" in "We all liked Charlie Kirk." here in the room with us?
Charlie Kirk has used religious rhetoric, the structure of public debate, and repeated logical fallacies to promote harmful narratives targeting specific groups. His approach misrepresents opposing views, exploits the debate format, and contributes to the marginalization of vulnerable communities. This pattern reflects bad-faith engagement designed to distort discourse and cause harm. If Kirk had shown more nuance—such as acknowledging facts, conceding his points, or finding common ground with opposing views—the situation would be different.
What does it mean to engage in debate in bad faith? It means pretending to seek honest dialogue while pursuing a hidden agenda. Charlie Kirk repeatedly demonstrated this tactic. His goal was not to foster understanding, but to win arguments and reinforce his own beliefs. This approach differs significantly from open dialogue, which—at its best—uses free speech to build mutual understanding. Kirk ignored factual accuracy, prioritized biased interpretations, and knowingly relied on fringe or misleading claims to justify his messaging. He frequently used straw-man arguments to avoid addressing legitimate counterpoints. He also employed numerous logical fallacies to discredit opposing views, while refusing to engage with nuance or contrary evidence (e.g., correlation vs. causation fallacy, burden of proof fallacy, false equivalence, ad hominem attacks, strawman fallacy, et etc.)
Charlie Kirk distorts religious doctrine and data to justify prejudice. He selectively cites or misinterprets religious texts to claim that faith demands the marginalization of certain groups—even when broader religious traditions reject that view. He does the same with selected ambiguous data. He frames these arguments as neutral or intellectual discussions about morality. In reality, they serve as a cover for promoting discrimination and bigotry. Kirk constructs misleading arguments designed to be easily refuted, avoiding serious engagement with legitimate counterpoints.
See Kirks' following comments on the following topics as examples of his tactics to promote hateful narratives targeting specific groups:
On Race
"If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024
"If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?" – The Charlie Kirk Show, 8 December 2022
"Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that’s a fact. It’s happening more and more." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 19 May 2023
"If I’m dealing with somebody in customer service who’s a moronic Black woman, I wonder is she there because of her excellence, or is she there because of affirmative action?" – The Charlie Kirk Show, 3 January 2024
"If we would have said that Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Sheila Jackson Lee and Ketanji Brown Jackson were affirmative action picks, we would have been called racists. Now they’re coming out and they’re saying it for us … You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person’s slot to go be taken somewhat seriously." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 13 July 2023
On Debate (and literally exhibiting a logical fallacy--burden of proof)
"Prove me wrong." - Charlie Kirk's The American Comeback Tour
On Gender, Feminism, and Reproductive Rights
"Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge." – Discussing news of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce’s engagement on The Charlie Kirk Show, 26 August 2025
"The answer is yes, the baby would be delivered." – Responding to a question about whether he would support his 10-year-old daughter aborting a pregnancy conceived because of rape on the debate show Surrounded, published on 8 September 2024
"We need to have a Nuremberg-style trial for every gender-affirming clinic doctor. We need it immediately." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 1 April 2024
On Immigration
"The American Democrat party hates this country. They wanna see it collapse. They love it when America becomes less white." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 20 March 2024
"The great replacement strategy, which is well under way every single day in our southern border, is a strategy to replace white rural America with something different." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 1 March 2024
On Religion
"America has freedom of religion, of course, but we should be frank: large dedicated Islamic areas are a threat to America." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 30 April 2025
"There is no separation of church and state. It’s a fabrication, it’s a fiction, it’s not in the constitution. It’s made up by secular humanists." – The Charlie Kirk Show, 6 July 2022
As your own position, let's break down your logical fallacies...
You stated, “The President is head of the country. Orders should be met.” This reflects a false appeal to authority. Holding a position of power does not mean directives must be followed without question. In the U.S. system of government, the President is not an absolute authority. The Constitution establishes a separation of powers and a system of checks and balances. Presidential directives do not carry the same legal weight as federal laws, which must be passed by Congress and signed by the President. Executive orders cannot create new laws or authorize spending not approved by Congress. For an executive order to be valid, it must be based on authority granted by the Constitution or by statute. If a President exceeds this authority, the directive can be challenged in court and overturned. Additionally, executive orders and other presidential directives can be rescinded or amended by future Presidents.
You wrote, “Our flag in our home is at half staff. Out of Respect.” In context, this is an appeal to emotion. It’s designed to evoke sympathy or reverence, but it does not advance a logical argument or address the substance of the discussion with Ibby.
You claim that “young people flocked back to God” because of Kirk’s rallies. This is a false cause fallacy—mistaking a sequence of events for a cause-and-effect relationship (post hoc ergo propter hoc). This oversimplifies a complex issue. It cherry-picks Kirk’s events as the primary driver of a broader trend in religiosity, while ignoring other cultural, political, and personal factors that influence spiritual engagement. Claims like this require substantial evidence. To establish causation, one would need rigorous research that accounts for multiple variables. Without that, the claim remains unverified. Finally, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim—not with others to disprove it.
You stated, “You don’t disobey orders because of a belief that you have for yourselves.” This presents a false dichotomy. It implies that personal belief is the only reason someone might disobey an order—and that such a reason is inherently invalid. This framing shuts down legitimate discussion. There are multiple valid reasons for disobeying an order: the order may be illegal or unethical, based on incomplete or faulty information, or physically impossible to carry out. Reducing complex decisions to a binary choice—obedience or invalid belief—oversimplifies reality and mirrors the rhetorical tactics often used by Kirk to avoid nuance.
You stated, “He did not practice reterick[sic] He spoke the truth.” This reflects a misunderstanding of what rhetoric is and sets up a false dichotomy between rhetoric and truth. Rhetoric is simply the art of persuasive communication. It can be used to express truth—or falsehood. Suggesting that truth and rhetoric are mutually exclusive misrepresents both concepts. Additionally, asserting that Kirk “spoke the truth” dismisses any criticism by framing his statements as inherently valid, without evidence or analysis.
But yes, "We all like Charlie Kirk." We know you do. Apparently, you like what he says.
Bam! Well-said!
He didn’t target groups, young people asked questions and answered as truthfully as he could.yes, God is, has always been a plus in the rally’s. I used to do rally’s for the youth. Almost the same way.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0079MEsycBJ346rljtOtLT8ow
"I had heard Kirk’s name but wasn’t sure until this week what he did. Numerous other Americans are first learning about him now."
I too have heard his name, but never read anything he wrote, listened to anything he ever said, or read about him on right-wing news sites. As such, I was unaware of the following he seemed to have had. So the reaction of many people to his death came as a bit of a surprise to me. And it also apparently surprised many others.
I raise this because I think it’s indicative of the polarization and fragmentation of our country. Typically, when the country goes into mourning for the loss of a well-known person, it’s something of a shared loss. We feel it, to one degree or another, and instinctively understand the loss others may feel.
I think it’s significant that this loss of life, this abhorrent and senseless death, affects different parts of America in profoundly different ways. Some take it personally; some more abstractly; for some, it has little meaning.
Perhaps this is a mirror image, to some degree, of the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder, or the murder of Minnesota House of Representatives Speaker Emerita Melissa Hortman and her husband.
Not a good indication of where our country is right now, or where we’re headed.
Please note, our city Hall flag was at Half mast to commemorate 9/11...NOT Kirk
...[my understanding is that] we are not subject to any president's orders: we are subject to laws / furthermore: we are not any president's subjects / But: what about leaving flags at half-staff [and half-mast] until: this presidency is history?...
Yes please
Unfortunately, Trumpty Dumpty has no plans to leave the presidency, even after this disgraceful term ends. He's already on record saying he doesn't believe in the two-term restriction. Most telling is that he's lining up government, SCOTUS, the military and millions of his rabid MAGAts to back up his insanity. Just wait and see.
Our City Hall flag was at half mast to commemorate 9/11...NOT Kirk
I'd go for this!!!
It seems like after 9/11 the flag has been at half staff about half the time. Often enough so that it’s barely noticeable.
I didn’t pay much attention to Kirk. One of his bon mots that crossed my radar was that he wouldn’t fly on a plane that had a Black pilot. He especially questioned the intelligence of Black women. Our “representative” is pushing for the firing of teachers who said bad things about this deceased racist online. Free speech isn’t free in her America.
Since she’s pushed the racist replacement theory it’s not surprising that Kirk’s racism wouldn’t bother her. Birds of a feather.
Trump has disgraced the flag and the country for a decade and more now. I look forward to it being at half staff for him. It’s obvious we’re not going to be able to start the recovery process until then.
History will record what all these people are.
And for the record, he also pushed the Big Lie about the 2020 election being fraudulent. But, of course he did.
Condolences to his family and friends and all. But, if the MAGA folk are going to push the notion that he walked on water then a little reality needs to shine in.
Nice clip here that came up in my YouTube feed.
https://youtu.be/D7XyhHLv6cI?si=41Lry8QS2mZ9tCAB
for the record, City Hall Flag was at half mast to commemorate 9/11...NOT Kirk
Well said!!
Our City Hall flag has been at half mast to commemorate 9/11!@!!!
The decision to lower the flag belonged to our elected council members. Was a vote taken? Who approved, who not? We the people want to know!
See above
Will, you should clarify WHY the flag is at half mast!!! To commemorate 9/11...NOT Kirk
Diane, the flag was at half mast to commemorate 9/11!!!!!
No one approved it!
I also had never heard of Charlie Kirk. I feel bad for his surviving family, but it sounds like the hate he promoted was the hate that killed him. He has become just another brick in the 'wall of hate'. There will be more, sadly.
“…but it sounds like the hate he promoted was the hate that killed him.” That is the absolute truth. As I said before to someone, he died by the sword he lived by.
Especially troubling in New York, where Kirk's white supremacist and white replacement rhetoric were reportedly the motivation for 18 year old Payton Gendron's mass murder at the Topps Market in Buffalo NY in 2022. American society is not just as sick today as it was at the time of the Kennedy and MLK killings, but even more deranged. Charlie Kirk lived by the sword that killed him, saying himself that guns are the answer to that derangement. Lower the flags, and you promote that deranged delusion, America.
Kirk and Elise Stefanik were friends and they shared in spreading the rhetoric of replacement theory that motivated the young white make with a gun to murder at the Tops Market.
There is a thread of complicity running throughout the Republican Party. We heard a lot of then decrying the violent left immediately after the shooting, but their messaging has changed since we found that the shooter is likely a far right extremist.
I agree...just for the record, the city hall flag is at half mast to commemorate 9/11!!!!!
The latest word is that the shooter was not a right-wing extremist. But that seems like a questionable inference by the Governor. We will have to wait for more information in coming weeks.
I agree with you that our flag should not be raised for a racist and white supremacist. However, our flag should by permanently positioned at half-staff until Trump leaves office. We mourn everyday over the cruelty and stupidity that he exhibits everyday while he tears our democracy apart.
Yes
Exactly! Kirk was not a man to receive the type of recognition he is getting. I feel for his children and don’t like the way he was killed killed, but he was a racist and not a very nice man, in my opinion.
Update, Sunday 9 a.m.: Mayor Collins just got back to me and said the flags being at half-staff were not for Charlie Kirk but to honor 9/11 heroes. The 9/11 observance is officially from sunrise to sunset on that day, known as Patriot Day, and Trump ordered the observance for Kirk to run through Sunday (today), which is why I thought, seeing the local flags lowered on Saturday, it was for Kirk. But these federal flag-lowering directives are guidance, or suggestions, without the force of law, and local communities can go their own way. So I'm glad we're not engaging in the immediate rewriting of Charlie Kirk's legacy, as so much of the country is. Pres. Trump, for example, says he intends to award Kirk the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the country's highest civilian honor. Who's next, Alex Jones?
Kirk's stand-in at the medal ceremony will have to stand in line behind Adolph Ghouliani, who was already named as an upcoming recipient. What a worthless scrap of metal that "prestigious" award has become. Ditto for Nobel Peace prize if that selection committee also kowtows to the dictator (emphasis on first syllable).
Thanks for the update, Will. Though I'm still confused about the mayor's explanation. If the City Hall flag was at half-staff to mark 9/11 (Thursday), then why is still lowered when you saw it Saturday? Does that mean the mayor or someone else made the decision to honor Kirk, or doesn't the city have an employee who'd return the flag to full staff at dark on Thursday? Sure hope it's the latter. I'll bet most, if not all, Republican/Conservative-dominated municipal and county governments, and service departments under their jurisdiction, still have flags at half-staff specifically to "honor" Kirk and tRump's directive. Another commenter already confirmed someone in Moreau town government directed flags at half-staff. Abuse of the American flag continues.
To quote a Twitter account that I follow, "We don't lower flags for white nationalists just because the white nationalist in the oval office is a white nationalist,"
Correction: "...just because the white nationalist in the oval office is a fan."
OK Will...the flag was at half-mast to commemorate 9/11!!!!! NOT the asshole who was shot.
Will you PLEASE research your comments as they relate to our Mayor more thoroughly. I understand you don't "like" him...however, these subtle jabs are waay beneath you. You KNOW I'm a HUGE fan of yours, so, this behavior really disappoints me.
Well, I just got a call back from the mayor, and I clarified above based on what he told me. I don't dislike the mayor. I did endorse Diana Palmer for the Democratic nomination, but I explained why and it wasn't because I dislike Bill Collins.
So, the mayor says the city traditionally leaves the flags at half-staff for several days to commemorate 9/11, which is not customary (customarily, they are lowered just for 9/11) but I didn't receive that information until today. Not the mayor's fault, since I didn't call until Saturday, which is when I noticed the flags.
Is it still at half mast?
Yes until Monday, he said
When told Kirk had been assassinated, I immediately said wasn't that guy a former Florida congressman, but the friend quickly set me straight. So, I read several articles about him that included lots of his personal life in addition to his absolutely horrendous hate speech and actions. It sickened me, especially because he was given credit for propagandizing the country's youth into his deep, black hole for which Repuklicans/Conservatives provided the shovel. The hate-filled lives are becoming -- figuratively and literally -- hereditary, it's in their genes, just like autism, alcoholism and other DNA irregularities. Saddest part is there are millions of young and old who are in his cult of madness.
To some of your neighbors saw Mr. Kirk as a soldier for the MAGA cause, now a martyr. Soon enough the Catholics will petition for sanctification, a step towards sainthood.