DeSantis does not recognize the provisions in our Constitution for correction and evolution. DeSantis is solely concerned with his own political ambitions. American interests necessarily must include ALL Americans.
You are correct. Several members board ran on a platform of “saving the mascot” which is not the mission of a board of education member. So while that is democracy, sometimes the electorate is also shortsighted.
I've worked for Glens Falls for 35 years and all four of my children graduated from this district. We were a proud athletic family and certainly stood strong believing that our mascot represented this dedicated school and community. That said, when this issue came up, although disheartening because we interpreted it differently, most understood that we could not relate to the hurt it caused indigenous people. The last thing anyone wanted was to hurt or offend so together the district and community are making a very big change for the better. Our hearts will always be with the Indians but the new mascot will represent a combined effort to be more sensitive and compassionate. That is what Glens Falls hopefully represents now and in the future.
I would love to support a local newspaper and greatly miss being able to hold and read the Post Star daily. Unfortunately, with no local delivery I had to resort to either a mailed version or reading on line. As neither appealed to me, I canceled my subscription until I can get local, daily delivery again.
Excellent Ken ~ With so many issues of far greater importance facing society it is shameful and disheartening to see effort and resources wasted on such trivia as a mascot for high school athletic teams. How about putting the effort and money into academics, into the betterment of society.
A colossal waste of the taxpayers money from the very beginning. I'm sure the current board has been advised by both the school superintendent and legal council of the futility of it's action. Yet they continue on. I'm glad I live in a neighboring district. I'm waiting to see what the next board election will bring after the true cost of this fiasco comes to light. Unfortunately, most voters don't participate in school elections.
You have this story completely wrong Ken. I own property in the Cambridge School District and followed this closely. Here are the facts...soon after the school board voted to change the mascot, school board elections were held and the two gentlemen who ran on the platform to reinstate the mascot were overwhelmingly voted in. I repeat...it was a total landslide in the Cambridge area and the community spoke loudly that they would like to retain the long-time mascot. At the next school board meeting, the new board voted back in the mascot as they campaign to do. Out of the hundreds of families in that community, only four complained to the unelected NYS Commissioner of Education who threatened to withold state taxpayer dollars if the mascot was not replaced.
One of the definitions of tyranny is the arbitrary use of power or control...and that is exactly what is happening in Cambridge. Silly to you...but obviously important to the majority of the Cambridge community.
...and so it's OK for an unelected bureaucrat to force the community to do something they clearly do not want to do? Be careful...that's a slippery slope.
As Ken wrote: preoccupation with the mascot issue is going to cost the community money better spent on real school needs. The issue was blown out of proportion by a number of hot heads. School board members should be concerned with genuine academic and infrastructure issues, not what drawings athletes play under. The voters in Cambridge did not choose their board members with careful thought about educational issues. The students lose and the community loses.
Ken you simplify your thoughts on the Indian mascot in Cambridge and truly do not understand it fully. Have you made an opportunity to have any meaningful conversation on the topic with pro-Indian folks, or the current BOE members? If so, give me a name. I mean, you have your opinion that does not jibe with the American Indian family that we have in our community. Easy to have your perspective from afar. I do agree, there is much to be learned from this, and I will not waste my time outlining some of those for someone that has their mind made up on the topic. In our community, I would suggest that that regardless of political affiliation, and whether pro-Indian or NOT, that Neil Gifford is considered "more" than arrogant and the smartest guy in the room...... always. Read his self serving resignation letter. In Cambridge many consider him exceedingly untrustworthy or sorts, not because of his position on the mascot, but the manner in which he has conducted himself. But again, you have been known to be the "smartest guy in the room also" and somewhat arrogant. The folks in Cambridge are no different than those in Glens Falls, Averill Park, Stillwater, Ravena and larger districts like Roy Ketcham and Mahopac in more southern communities fighting the same issue. In many of these schools and communities they are NOT moving on from this. That ONE person (Betty Rosa) made a unilateral decision on this matter flies in the face of true democratic process, whether you agree with it or not. We are heartened that Betty Rosa, Neil Gifford and now Ken Tingley know BEST when it comes to Native names and mascots. I know that's a load off of my mind. -Steven Luke
Hello Luke. “American Indian family”? People living in India are called Indians. Indians are considered exceptional in the field of mathematics. The idea of zero and the decimal came from India.
"Native Americans" are Indigenous tribes that had to deal with the European tourists who came to look around and refused to leave.
I understand your confusion, I grew up with cowboy and Indian western TV shows, boy was I confused. I still find myself referring to Native Americans as Indians
Are you referring to Duane Honyoust a Cambridge resident and a member of the Onondaga Nation?
While I was looking around the Onondaga Nation website, I lifted the following quote “You who are wise must know, that different Nations have different conceptions. And therefor our ideas of education happen not to be the same as yours.” CANASATEGO, AN ONONDAGA SPOKESMAN ADDRESSING ENGLISH COLONIAL OFFICIALS, 1744
Not quite sure of its meaning but I liked it. I wonder if it’s a translation form the Onondaga native language. In different languages some words have no direct translation for a given concept. I don’t believe native Americans had words for the concept of private land ownership. How can one own their mother?
I got a chuckle out of your comment “that we have in our community” Are they like pets? I have a cat in my home. Ok, its Late and my tiny little mind tends to wander.
Has anyone in your group ever reached out to the Chiefs of the Onondaga Nation seeking their input? I find it hard to believe one man speaks for the whole Onondaga Nation. But then again, I could be wrong. In 2010 when Bitcoin was under a buck, I thought I’ll invest a hundred bucks, what do I have to lose. Hundred bucks that’s what. Not seeing any value in it I keep my money and did not invest.
What is a mascot? what does it represent? what is its value?
Mr. Tucker, I have a long relationship with the Honyoust family. So no, I don't consider them my pets. If you know them also you know that they are in their fourth generation of supporting the Cambridge Indian name and logo. If they did not support it, our community would respectfully honor their wishes in that regard. Just as we honor their wishes to keep the name and logo. So chuckle away.
As far as the term "American Indian" it is preferential for many. The Honyoust Family consider themselves "American Indians". Have you heard of the "National Congress of American Indians"? They are NOT the "National Congress of Native Americans" or the "National Congress of Indigenous People". There logo is one with a full head-dress. If the Indian name and head-dress logo are so harmful, why are they still using both?
Steven, after I posted, I continued my search. You are correct, some prefer “American Indian” although other prefer “Native American”
Until I read Will Doolittle’s “Americans are not mascots” I had not hear of National Congress of American Indians. He supplied a link so I went to see what I would find.
One thing I found, the National Congress of American Indians was established in 1944 in response to the termination and assimilation policies the US government forced upon tribal governments in contradiction of their treaty rights and status as sovereign nations. Here's the link https://www.ncai.org/about-ncai/mission-history
On that page is a picture of the charter members chick on download to view the list of members and their tribe.
Next, I went to the search box and entered “mascot”. Can you guess what I found.
What? That they are "opposed" to native images for use in schools. As far as a mascot at Cambridge, to my knowledge we have never had an actual Indian 'mascot" at Cambridge. Someone that dresses up like and Indian and pretends to be one. So we do not have an Indian Mascot in Cambridge.
Many of the beliefs that I have around this topic, in conjunction with the Honyoust Family, come from the Native American Guardians Association. They believe that the elimination of these names and mascots is the next step in the erasure of the Native/Indian Culture in America. Their motto being "Educate not Eradicate". To me, the Honyoust's and others, this makes sense.
Sounds to me like a case of the little kid who couldn't get his own way, so he took his ball and went home. And I think your reference to the supporters of the Indian mascot as "an unruly mob" is inappropriate insult journalism when what they are doing is using the legal process to challenge what they reasonably believe is an arbitrary and capricious decision by the Commissioner of Education.
I don't see the relevancy of either of your statements. The little kid I spoke of may have played with the same group for over 3 years. And lots of cases have lost repeatedly before being won in the highest court, e.g., Brown vs. Board of Education.
Shocking to hear you compare this case to segregation in schools. This is about the use of a mascot for your sports teams. It’s a silly issue and not worth spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money when that money could be going to student resources.
I thought I already replied with: Government overreach is not a silly issue. And the Commissioner of Education should have better things to do than make a silly ruling that creates a needless controversy.
What do our students think about this? I keep hearing "let the students" have input. The input from Cambridge "students" over the past several months has been loud and clear. It just does not happen to fall in line with what YOU would like to hear. Do your homework.
I totally agree with you. They should be dealing with issues such as how high or low is the graduation rate? Are kids getting enough to eat at home to perform at school? Hooray for Gifford! Great great column!
Government overreach is not a silly issue. The Commissioner of Education should have better things to do so that no money would have to be spent on this.
37 comments as I post here and I don’t know what to think…………..Not true, I’ll think what I want, we all do!
ken is looking to take the moral high ground in his argument. Shifting the argument from the inappropriateness of an of Indian mascot to one which is has much more value ……..Money!
Ken writes “The issue (being the mascot) will draw attention away from the core mission of education. There are far more important issues facing the young people in Cambridge than the nickname for its sports teams.” What is the “core mission of education”?
Later ken writes “The community of Cambridge has wasted far too much time and money on this issue already. At least it is not banning books, yet.” And there it is “Money” I’m feeling a song coming on "For The Love Of Money" - The O'Jays (lyrics) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDiTv1JgLIo I’ve got the ear buds in place and listening to it as I type.
The song, seven minutes and twenty-two seconds long and near the beginning a little bit over thirty seconds of, money, money, money, money………… money………, I get the point, really, the songs about money. Even my high school teachers didn’t repeat a point that many times.
What is a mascot? what does it represent? what is its value?
What does the banning of books have to do with the issue of not wanting to give up a mascot? So, What? If they refuse to give up the mascot the next thing, they’ll be doing is banning books?
Really an Arrowhead. In the conflict between Native Americans and the Europeans who used arrows? I’m thinking, a rose by any other name or in this case a symbol is in what way different?
The Following link leads to Tribal Territories in New York https://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/05/native-american-tribes-of-new-york.html Looks like James Fenimore Cooper may have been confused when he wrote Last of the Mohicans in 1826. Sitting here listing to the “The Last of the Mohicans” sound track, music with no words. As I drift in a cloud thought, I find no words can express my thoughts as I sit here typing only words.
As a former school district administrator, I've witnessed firsthand how vile and contentious school board meetings can get. It amazes me that anyone is still willing to serve in any public capacity with the abuse people feel free to sling. That said, resigning takes away a dissident's voice to continue questioning decisions of those who seek to shrink a child's worldview rather than expand it. It is perhaps the most important public seat anyone can hold - determining the course of education, which should level the playing field for all kids, directly affecting our collective future. I applaud Gifford's stance; it takes courage. And sometimes enough is enough. But still.....
I am glad you added the caveat “not to my knowledge”.
Please read third paragraph.
https://www.senate.gov/civics/constitution_item/constitution.htm
You very clearly wrote “evolution is not involved”. LOL
DeSantis does not recognize the provisions in our Constitution for correction and evolution. DeSantis is solely concerned with his own political ambitions. American interests necessarily must include ALL Americans.
Regressive progressive, really? I'll bet you would love DeSantis!
You are correct. Several members board ran on a platform of “saving the mascot” which is not the mission of a board of education member. So while that is democracy, sometimes the electorate is also shortsighted.
I've worked for Glens Falls for 35 years and all four of my children graduated from this district. We were a proud athletic family and certainly stood strong believing that our mascot represented this dedicated school and community. That said, when this issue came up, although disheartening because we interpreted it differently, most understood that we could not relate to the hurt it caused indigenous people. The last thing anyone wanted was to hurt or offend so together the district and community are making a very big change for the better. Our hearts will always be with the Indians but the new mascot will represent a combined effort to be more sensitive and compassionate. That is what Glens Falls hopefully represents now and in the future.
I would love to support a local newspaper and greatly miss being able to hold and read the Post Star daily. Unfortunately, with no local delivery I had to resort to either a mailed version or reading on line. As neither appealed to me, I canceled my subscription until I can get local, daily delivery again.
I’m glad you are reading here and hope that helps fill the void in some small way.
How 'bout "River Pigs", if Tupper Lake doesn't object?
Excellent Ken ~ With so many issues of far greater importance facing society it is shameful and disheartening to see effort and resources wasted on such trivia as a mascot for high school athletic teams. How about putting the effort and money into academics, into the betterment of society.
Exactly the point, especially with so much concern about how the lockdown affected current students emotionally.
A colossal waste of the taxpayers money from the very beginning. I'm sure the current board has been advised by both the school superintendent and legal council of the futility of it's action. Yet they continue on. I'm glad I live in a neighboring district. I'm waiting to see what the next board election will bring after the true cost of this fiasco comes to light. Unfortunately, most voters don't participate in school elections.
You have this story completely wrong Ken. I own property in the Cambridge School District and followed this closely. Here are the facts...soon after the school board voted to change the mascot, school board elections were held and the two gentlemen who ran on the platform to reinstate the mascot were overwhelmingly voted in. I repeat...it was a total landslide in the Cambridge area and the community spoke loudly that they would like to retain the long-time mascot. At the next school board meeting, the new board voted back in the mascot as they campaign to do. Out of the hundreds of families in that community, only four complained to the unelected NYS Commissioner of Education who threatened to withold state taxpayer dollars if the mascot was not replaced.
One of the definitions of tyranny is the arbitrary use of power or control...and that is exactly what is happening in Cambridge. Silly to you...but obviously important to the majority of the Cambridge community.
Voters don’t always get it right. And I don’t think they got it right in this case.
...and so it's OK for an unelected bureaucrat to force the community to do something they clearly do not want to do? Be careful...that's a slippery slope.
Never said that. It’s the issue I think is silly.
As Ken wrote: preoccupation with the mascot issue is going to cost the community money better spent on real school needs. The issue was blown out of proportion by a number of hot heads. School board members should be concerned with genuine academic and infrastructure issues, not what drawings athletes play under. The voters in Cambridge did not choose their board members with careful thought about educational issues. The students lose and the community loses.
Ken you simplify your thoughts on the Indian mascot in Cambridge and truly do not understand it fully. Have you made an opportunity to have any meaningful conversation on the topic with pro-Indian folks, or the current BOE members? If so, give me a name. I mean, you have your opinion that does not jibe with the American Indian family that we have in our community. Easy to have your perspective from afar. I do agree, there is much to be learned from this, and I will not waste my time outlining some of those for someone that has their mind made up on the topic. In our community, I would suggest that that regardless of political affiliation, and whether pro-Indian or NOT, that Neil Gifford is considered "more" than arrogant and the smartest guy in the room...... always. Read his self serving resignation letter. In Cambridge many consider him exceedingly untrustworthy or sorts, not because of his position on the mascot, but the manner in which he has conducted himself. But again, you have been known to be the "smartest guy in the room also" and somewhat arrogant. The folks in Cambridge are no different than those in Glens Falls, Averill Park, Stillwater, Ravena and larger districts like Roy Ketcham and Mahopac in more southern communities fighting the same issue. In many of these schools and communities they are NOT moving on from this. That ONE person (Betty Rosa) made a unilateral decision on this matter flies in the face of true democratic process, whether you agree with it or not. We are heartened that Betty Rosa, Neil Gifford and now Ken Tingley know BEST when it comes to Native names and mascots. I know that's a load off of my mind. -Steven Luke
Putting this issue ahead of other more important issue in the school district is short-sighted and not in the best interests of the students.
A person is not “arrogant” simply because they genuinely disagree with you.
Hello Luke. “American Indian family”? People living in India are called Indians. Indians are considered exceptional in the field of mathematics. The idea of zero and the decimal came from India.
"Native Americans" are Indigenous tribes that had to deal with the European tourists who came to look around and refused to leave.
I understand your confusion, I grew up with cowboy and Indian western TV shows, boy was I confused. I still find myself referring to Native Americans as Indians
Are you referring to Duane Honyoust a Cambridge resident and a member of the Onondaga Nation?
This link https://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/05/native-american-tribes-of-new-york.html leads to “NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES OF NEW YORK” just some more information interesting though.
The following link will take you to the Onondaga Nation web page that contains information about Onondaga people. https://www.onondaganation.org/aboutus/
While I was looking around the Onondaga Nation website, I lifted the following quote “You who are wise must know, that different Nations have different conceptions. And therefor our ideas of education happen not to be the same as yours.” CANASATEGO, AN ONONDAGA SPOKESMAN ADDRESSING ENGLISH COLONIAL OFFICIALS, 1744
Not quite sure of its meaning but I liked it. I wonder if it’s a translation form the Onondaga native language. In different languages some words have no direct translation for a given concept. I don’t believe native Americans had words for the concept of private land ownership. How can one own their mother?
I got a chuckle out of your comment “that we have in our community” Are they like pets? I have a cat in my home. Ok, its Late and my tiny little mind tends to wander.
Has anyone in your group ever reached out to the Chiefs of the Onondaga Nation seeking their input? I find it hard to believe one man speaks for the whole Onondaga Nation. But then again, I could be wrong. In 2010 when Bitcoin was under a buck, I thought I’ll invest a hundred bucks, what do I have to lose. Hundred bucks that’s what. Not seeing any value in it I keep my money and did not invest.
What is a mascot? what does it represent? what is its value?
Mr. Tucker, I have a long relationship with the Honyoust family. So no, I don't consider them my pets. If you know them also you know that they are in their fourth generation of supporting the Cambridge Indian name and logo. If they did not support it, our community would respectfully honor their wishes in that regard. Just as we honor their wishes to keep the name and logo. So chuckle away.
As far as the term "American Indian" it is preferential for many. The Honyoust Family consider themselves "American Indians". Have you heard of the "National Congress of American Indians"? They are NOT the "National Congress of Native Americans" or the "National Congress of Indigenous People". There logo is one with a full head-dress. If the Indian name and head-dress logo are so harmful, why are they still using both?
Steven, after I posted, I continued my search. You are correct, some prefer “American Indian” although other prefer “Native American”
Until I read Will Doolittle’s “Americans are not mascots” I had not hear of National Congress of American Indians. He supplied a link so I went to see what I would find.
One thing I found, the National Congress of American Indians was established in 1944 in response to the termination and assimilation policies the US government forced upon tribal governments in contradiction of their treaty rights and status as sovereign nations. Here's the link https://www.ncai.org/about-ncai/mission-history
On that page is a picture of the charter members chick on download to view the list of members and their tribe.
Next, I went to the search box and entered “mascot”. Can you guess what I found.
What? That they are "opposed" to native images for use in schools. As far as a mascot at Cambridge, to my knowledge we have never had an actual Indian 'mascot" at Cambridge. Someone that dresses up like and Indian and pretends to be one. So we do not have an Indian Mascot in Cambridge.
Many of the beliefs that I have around this topic, in conjunction with the Honyoust Family, come from the Native American Guardians Association. They believe that the elimination of these names and mascots is the next step in the erasure of the Native/Indian Culture in America. Their motto being "Educate not Eradicate". To me, the Honyoust's and others, this makes sense.
Steven thank you for the reply you have given me something new to think about.
Best to you Mr. Tucker.
Sounds to me like a case of the little kid who couldn't get his own way, so he took his ball and went home. And I think your reference to the supporters of the Indian mascot as "an unruly mob" is inappropriate insult journalism when what they are doing is using the legal process to challenge what they reasonably believe is an arbitrary and capricious decision by the Commissioner of Education.
Actually he has served for more than 3 years. It has lost repeatedly in court.
I don't see the relevancy of either of your statements. The little kid I spoke of may have played with the same group for over 3 years. And lots of cases have lost repeatedly before being won in the highest court, e.g., Brown vs. Board of Education.
Shocking to hear you compare this case to segregation in schools. This is about the use of a mascot for your sports teams. It’s a silly issue and not worth spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money when that money could be going to student resources.
I thought I already replied with: Government overreach is not a silly issue. And the Commissioner of Education should have better things to do than make a silly ruling that creates a needless controversy.
Those who did not get their own way?
What do our students think about this? I keep hearing "let the students" have input. The input from Cambridge "students" over the past several months has been loud and clear. It just does not happen to fall in line with what YOU would like to hear. Do your homework.
Volume does not equal majority.
I totally agree with you. They should be dealing with issues such as how high or low is the graduation rate? Are kids getting enough to eat at home to perform at school? Hooray for Gifford! Great great column!
Government overreach is not a silly issue. The Commissioner of Education should have better things to do so that no money would have to be spent on this.
The commissioner was responding to a complaint. This decision is over 20 years old, so it is not like it came out of the blue.
37 comments as I post here and I don’t know what to think…………..Not true, I’ll think what I want, we all do!
ken is looking to take the moral high ground in his argument. Shifting the argument from the inappropriateness of an of Indian mascot to one which is has much more value ……..Money!
Ken writes “The issue (being the mascot) will draw attention away from the core mission of education. There are far more important issues facing the young people in Cambridge than the nickname for its sports teams.” What is the “core mission of education”?
Later ken writes “The community of Cambridge has wasted far too much time and money on this issue already. At least it is not banning books, yet.” And there it is “Money” I’m feeling a song coming on "For The Love Of Money" - The O'Jays (lyrics) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDiTv1JgLIo I’ve got the ear buds in place and listening to it as I type.
The song, seven minutes and twenty-two seconds long and near the beginning a little bit over thirty seconds of, money, money, money, money………… money………, I get the point, really, the songs about money. Even my high school teachers didn’t repeat a point that many times.
What is a mascot? what does it represent? what is its value?
What does the banning of books have to do with the issue of not wanting to give up a mascot? So, What? If they refuse to give up the mascot the next thing, they’ll be doing is banning books?
Really an Arrowhead. In the conflict between Native Americans and the Europeans who used arrows? I’m thinking, a rose by any other name or in this case a symbol is in what way different?
The Following link leads to Tribal Territories in New York https://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/05/native-american-tribes-of-new-york.html Looks like James Fenimore Cooper may have been confused when he wrote Last of the Mohicans in 1826. Sitting here listing to the “The Last of the Mohicans” sound track, music with no words. As I drift in a cloud thought, I find no words can express my thoughts as I sit here typing only words.
As a former school district administrator, I've witnessed firsthand how vile and contentious school board meetings can get. It amazes me that anyone is still willing to serve in any public capacity with the abuse people feel free to sling. That said, resigning takes away a dissident's voice to continue questioning decisions of those who seek to shrink a child's worldview rather than expand it. It is perhaps the most important public seat anyone can hold - determining the course of education, which should level the playing field for all kids, directly affecting our collective future. I applaud Gifford's stance; it takes courage. And sometimes enough is enough. But still.....
I remember one especially contentious meeting in Whitehall over the firing of a football coach. That was pretty ugly as well.